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as German I never felt European and neither do I know any german that feels so. Germany is the only country in europe where patriotism is considered right-wing

as German I never felt European and neither do I know any german that feels so. Germany is the only country in europe where patriotism is considered right-wing and not seen well, in other countries there is indeed a national consent / identity, people are patriots and proud of that (poland, spain, italy, romania, albania, turkey, ...). You will definitely not get any any "we are all europeans <3" vibes there. The concept of being an "european" is a woke leftist mindset that you will encounter mostly in Berlin but it is what it is -> a woke idea and not reality

Semaphor 2y ago
You already showed in your other, deservedly dead, comment that you have no idea what you are talking about (e.g. claiming Bildungsurlaub does not exist, despite one easily being able to look up the relevant laws), so keep your lack of knowledge to yourself and troll somewhere else.
- mathverse 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - perching_aix 2y ago
    > "feeling european" is a woke mindset. oh my god...
- kunley 2y ago
  He does have a point tho, at least partly Germany is using the "we are all Europeans" agenda in their own interest. Normal folks just don't care that much about politics tho and embrace their own culture.
groestl 2y ago
> Germany is the only country in europe where patriotism is considered right-wing and not seen well Nah, not exactly. Source: Am Austrian.
- em-bee 2y ago
  has this changed in the recent decades? when i was there austria's right wing party was way more open about their intentions than would have been acceptable in germany. but also i didn't feel that at least mild patriotism was considered right wing at all. i mean we all joke how we are glad not to be germans. :-) and austria's reputation in the world is also quite different. people talk about austria being a country of music. you do know austria's two greatest achievements? to make the world believe that beethoven is austrian and hitler is german
  - wink 2y ago
    I've never seen such a stark contrast between capital and rural areas than in Austria (maybe with a couple bigger cities being in the middle), so without looking at where the person you replied to is from you could have a real agree/disagree disconnect.
    - em-bee 2y ago
      well, that would only work if i was living in a rural area. i think the disconnect is rather that i have lived in both countries and experienced the different attitudes there. it probably goes like this: rural austria > rural germany > large cities in austria > large cities in germany. but i have only lived in the latter two, so i can't really talk about rural areas either way.
voytec 2y ago
Poland's right-wing is pushing nationalism and anti-EU propaganda under the guise of patriotism. The word lost its original meaning since pre-1991 communist era.
ballooney 2y ago
Just to be clear incase the other replies haven’t made it so, you are definitely, definitely completely wrong about this and continuing to think this way will cause you to misunderstand the world you live in and make mistaken decisions. I have lived in several European countries and they all have a sect of loud delicate people pretending they are victims and persecuted for wanting to be patriots.
albertzeyer 2y ago
I guess we are all in our own bubble, but in my circle of friends (all in Germany), it is rather the opposite: I and many of my friends feel quite European, and don't identify at all as being a German. I would consider myself even quite anti-patriotic. E.g. I would be quite happy if we can get rid of the countries (Germany etc) and have one unified big Europe (or EU) country, similar as USA. And this is not such an unusual view. You will definitely get many "we are all europeans" vibes. I think you will mostly see this in all the bigger cities and also all the university cities. Esp among students, this is very common.
- wink 2y ago
  These are not mutually exclusive and highly depend on what criteria you look at and how you weight them. I am not even sure how I feel, and less of trying to objectively decide what I am. I definitely feel stronger ties to Munich and Bavaria than to Germany (let's not speak about politics though) and I 90% agree with the concept of being European, but it's indeed so very abstract that I am not sure if I really feel European. Maybe it's more of a superficial look at cliches and seeing yourself in them.
Toorkit 2y ago
>Germany is the only country in europe where patriotism is considered right-wing and not seen well Unless it's soccer time, then they're clad in flags and screaming "'SCHLAAAND!"
em-bee 2y ago
you are contradicting yourself. patriotism being considered right wing is exactly why germans prefer to feel european. and it's not only germany, everywhere else in europe too people consider german patriotism as rightwing. while i lived in germany, when i traveled abroad telling people i live in germany the reaction was noticeably different compared to later when i moved to austria. people outside of germany assume that germans are as patriotic as they are for their own country. combined that with hate crimes in germany making headlines and you can easily see how people think about germans. when angela merkel welcomed all refugees during the syria crisis it was the first time i felt proud to have lived there. (officially recognizing dual citizenship was the second. you can say what you want about germans, but at least their laws in this area are developing in the right direction. they recently made it easier to get german citizenship too)
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >when angela merkel welcomed all refugees during the syria crisis it was the first time i felt proud to have lived there. This national delusion and inability to separate the harsh reality from wishful thinking, is why Germany is going to shit and why many skilled Germans are emigrating to places like Switzerland and the US with saner policies and stricter immigration laws. My current boss is the third one I'm seeing emigrate to the US where they're happier than in Germany and get better healthcare. And I lost track on how many colleagues I saw move to CH in the last 10 years. I expect the politicians I vote for and pay half my salary every month to take care of their own citizens first and foremost and not prioritize outsiders who aren't their citizens/voters using my tax Euros. Has every homeless and starving citizen of Germany been taken care of with a roof over their head and food? No? Then where are you going to house and feed all those foreign refugees you're bringing in? With what money? If you have money for refugees you should have for the locals as well first and foremost. Has every citizen of Germany received timely healthcare in the public system and easy to find a place in kindergartens/school/Hausarzt? No, because you have a shortage of doctors and teachers? Then how is importing more unskilled foreigners gonna make these public staff shortages better for the local citizens? This is not "right wing extremism" take, it's just basic economics and survivorship common sense based on availability of limited resources by respecting democratic principles of the citizens. So politicians, please don't use my tax money to care for foreigners when you haven't yet taken care of the locals who pay your wages and fund the public systems we need. Please perform your virtue signaling on how generous and welcoming you are using your own private money and properties, not the taxpayers'. Because it's very easy to be generous with someone else's money.

Semaphor 2y ago

You already showed in your other, deservedly dead, comment that you have no idea what you are talking about (e.g. claiming Bildungsurlaub does not exist, despite one easily being able to look up the relevant laws), so keep your lack of knowledge to yourself and troll somewhere else.

mathverse 2y ago
[flagged]
- perching_aix 2y ago
  > "feeling european" is a woke mindset. oh my god...
kunley 2y ago
He does have a point tho, at least partly Germany is using the "we are all Europeans" agenda in their own interest. Normal folks just don't care that much about politics tho and embrace their own culture.

groestl 2y ago

> Germany is the only country in europe where patriotism is considered right-wing and not seen well Nah, not exactly. Source: Am Austrian.

em-bee 2y ago
has this changed in the recent decades? when i was there austria's right wing party was way more open about their intentions than would have been acceptable in germany. but also i didn't feel that at least mild patriotism was considered right wing at all. i mean we all joke how we are glad not to be germans. :-) and austria's reputation in the world is also quite different. people talk about austria being a country of music. you do know austria's two greatest achievements? to make the world believe that beethoven is austrian and hitler is german
- wink 2y ago
  I've never seen such a stark contrast between capital and rural areas than in Austria (maybe with a couple bigger cities being in the middle), so without looking at where the person you replied to is from you could have a real agree/disagree disconnect.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    well, that would only work if i was living in a rural area. i think the disconnect is rather that i have lived in both countries and experienced the different attitudes there. it probably goes like this: rural austria > rural germany > large cities in austria > large cities in germany. but i have only lived in the latter two, so i can't really talk about rural areas either way.

voytec 2y ago

Poland's right-wing is pushing nationalism and anti-EU propaganda under the guise of patriotism. The word lost its original meaning since pre-1991 communist era.

ballooney 2y ago

Just to be clear incase the other replies haven’t made it so, you are definitely, definitely completely wrong about this and continuing to think this way will cause you to misunderstand the world you live in and make mistaken decisions. I have lived in several European countries and they all have a sect of loud delicate people pretending they are victims and persecuted for wanting to be patriots.

albertzeyer 2y ago

I guess we are all in our own bubble, but in my circle of friends (all in Germany), it is rather the opposite: I and many of my friends feel quite European, and don't identify at all as being a German. I would consider myself even quite anti-patriotic. E.g. I would be quite happy if we can get rid of the countries (Germany etc) and have one unified big Europe (or EU) country, similar as USA. And this is not such an unusual view. You will definitely get many "we are all europeans" vibes. I think you will mostly see this in all the bigger cities and also all the university cities. Esp among students, this is very common.

wink 2y ago
These are not mutually exclusive and highly depend on what criteria you look at and how you weight them. I am not even sure how I feel, and less of trying to objectively decide what I am. I definitely feel stronger ties to Munich and Bavaria than to Germany (let's not speak about politics though) and I 90% agree with the concept of being European, but it's indeed so very abstract that I am not sure if I really feel European. Maybe it's more of a superficial look at cliches and seeing yourself in them.

Toorkit 2y ago

>Germany is the only country in europe where patriotism is considered right-wing and not seen well Unless it's soccer time, then they're clad in flags and screaming "'SCHLAAAND!"

em-bee 2y ago

you are contradicting yourself. patriotism being considered right wing is exactly why germans prefer to feel european. and it's not only germany, everywhere else in europe too people consider german patriotism as rightwing. while i lived in germany, when i traveled abroad telling people i live in germany the reaction was noticeably different compared to later when i moved to austria. people outside of germany assume that germans are as patriotic as they are for their own country. combined that with hate crimes in germany making headlines and you can easily see how people think about germans. when angela merkel welcomed all refugees during the syria crisis it was the first time i felt proud to have lived there. (officially recognizing dual citizenship was the second. you can say what you want about germans, but at least their laws in this area are developing in the right direction. they recently made it easier to get german citizenship too)

Rinzler89 2y ago
>when angela merkel welcomed all refugees during the syria crisis it was the first time i felt proud to have lived there. This national delusion and inability to separate the harsh reality from wishful thinking, is why Germany is going to shit and why many skilled Germans are emigrating to places like Switzerland and the US with saner policies and stricter immigration laws. My current boss is the third one I'm seeing emigrate to the US where they're happier than in Germany and get better healthcare. And I lost track on how many colleagues I saw move to CH in the last 10 years. I expect the politicians I vote for and pay half my salary every month to take care of their own citizens first and foremost and not prioritize outsiders who aren't their citizens/voters using my tax Euros. Has every homeless and starving citizen of Germany been taken care of with a roof over their head and food? No? Then where are you going to house and feed all those foreign refugees you're bringing in? With what money? If you have money for refugees you should have for the locals as well first and foremost. Has every citizen of Germany received timely healthcare in the public system and easy to find a place in kindergartens/school/Hausarzt? No, because you have a shortage of doctors and teachers? Then how is importing more unskilled foreigners gonna make these public staff shortages better for the local citizens? This is not "right wing extremism" take, it's just basic economics and survivorship common sense based on availability of limited resources by respecting democratic principles of the citizens. So politicians, please don't use my tax money to care for foreigners when you haven't yet taken care of the locals who pay your wages and fund the public systems we need. Please perform your virtue signaling on how generous and welcoming you are using your own private money and properties, not the taxpayers'. Because it's very easy to be generous with someone else's money.