4 ms·

I‘m aware this is only a tiny datapoint, but as someone who is now finally living completely ICE-free since June, when we switched the larger family car to a BE

I‘m aware this is only a tiny datapoint, but as someone who is now finally living completely ICE-free since June, when we switched the larger family car to a BEV, too: I will never go back. It’s hard to describe really, but driving an ICE car by now simply feels — wrong. And I don’t mean on a moral level, I really mean the feeling of the physical act of driving.

nielsbot 2y ago
…but also morally? :) anyway i think this ad illustrates the difference nicely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn__9hLJKAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn__9hLJKAk
- snovymgodym 2y ago
  Eh. In most countries the majority of electricity generation still comes from fossil fuels so people are essentially doing what the ad is depicting just with extra steps. It's a good way to put the general wastefulness we exhibit with electricity into perspective though.
  - triceratops 2y ago
    This is the kind of comment that sounds "wise" and "realistic". But it's important to think a bit deeper. Existing electricity generation goes to powering existing consumers. We'd burn those fossil fuels whether or not we bought more electric cars. Electric cars are a new electricity consumer. So the source of energy for this additional electricity is what matters. In 2022, 83% of new electric capacity was from renewable sources. [1] We can quibble about timing issues. For example, there's a lot of solar energy during the day but electric cars are often charged at night. But it's clear that renewable energy and electric cars are rising together. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_renewable_electricity_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_renewable...
  - _aavaa_ 2y ago
    Not exactly. Power plants + EV is more efficient than burning gas in an ICE. Plus you remove the pollution from population centers. And of course the EV will get greaner over its lifespan as electricity production is transitioned away from fossil fuels.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    This is factually inaccurate. EVs from a fossil fuel grid are still cleaner than internal combustion (“well to wheel”). The grid keeps getting cleaner every year, a combustion vehicle burns petroleum its entire life.
  - 39896880 2y ago
    An ICE vehicle will always and forever run on fossil fuels. An EV may start its life getting electricity generated from fossil fuels but can get its power from whatever the generation changes to
  - solumunus 2y ago
    This is level 1 thinking. Go a bit deeper buddy, you can do it!
  - smileysteve 2y ago
    Efficiencies of Scale is a thing, as is specialization of technology. Power plants can run at near constant rpm, and power thousands of households; inspections of emissions equipment and practices at that site can be enforced and fixed. Versus the same thousands of cars, a few have a check engine light on, a few have a leaking oil gasket, a few have a worn out ignition system, some of them bought contaminated gas. Any parking lot oil stain disproves you.
cbeach 2y ago
The delayed throttle response is really aggravating whenever I get into an ICE car. And the noise, the vibration and the smell of the fumes. You really start noticing these things around you when you’ve got used to the clean and silent operation of an BEV. And I’ve certainly noticed the cost savings - going from filling a tank with £60 of petrol to charging my car conveniently at home for £5
- gist 2y ago
  > And the noise, the vibration and the smell of the fumes. In this day and age? Which car do you 'smell the fumes' or 'the vibration' unless the vibration is intentional (for the experience).
  - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
    I certainly smell the fumes when I fill the tank.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    Unless you’re driving a very high end car, pretty much any ICE definitely vibrates. It’s especially noticeable at start/stop with cars equipped with auto start stop. Also, the older the car, the more you’ll start getting weird smells and more vibrations. Oil leaks, motor mounts wearing out, etc. Most of those can be fixed, but who hasn’t driven a car earlier in their youth that perhaps wasn’t in the best shape? I knew a guy who drove a car that he had to put a liter of oil in it every 1000mi… none of those are problems with an EV besides perhaps aging suspension components.
- mint2 2y ago
  Stop start engines on non-hybrid cars are a shock. Takes that delayed throttle response to a new level.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  >charging my car conveniently at home for £5 Emphasis on the "at home" part. Unless you have your own home with private parking and charger, EV ownership is a pain due to how expensive ,lacking and shit public charging infrastructure is. I'll have to stick to an ICE until they fix those since owning a house with my own parking space doesn't seem to be on the cards for me financially. People somehow forget this demographic exists.
crmd 2y ago
There’s nothing on earth like the low end torque of an electric car. Everyone should experience it once. But I went back to ICE the same way i go back to vacuum tube guitar amps.
dyauspitr 2y ago
I’ve had a Ford F-150 Lightning for about 6 months and ICE vehicles viscerally feel poisonous and clunky. The responsiveness, torque, quiet, low cost of use, low maintenance and just how clean they are (no poisons spewed) is just something I can’t give up anymore. There are still problems with range and charge times specifically for a truck but we are very close. A doubling of the standard range and a halving of the charge time would make ICE irrelevant in the truck space outside of very long distance towing.
- meowster 2y ago
  I'm looking forward to the new Ramcharger (new plug-in hybrid truck, not the old SUV). Hopefully Stellantis gets its act together.
  - Salgat 2y ago
    They're actually working on using the ramcharger powertrain in a new wagoneer. I'm so excited for that.
  - dyauspitr 2y ago
    The new Chevy Silverado EV has a massive 200kwh battery and 275kw charging. That’s going to be an absolute minimum of 300 miles of range and more realistically 400-500 miles per charge.
powerbroker 2y ago
The constant explosions in four different compartments might have something to do with it feeling wrong. I wonder if anyone can tell us how many mounts support the engine and give it some opportunity to dampen the explosions -- and through what apparatus.
- syndicatedjelly 2y ago
  My last car had a v8 engine mounted on hydraulic engine mounts, and you could hardly feel the engine (but certainly hear it). The sound was glorious, and it’s the only thing I miss about that car having gone to EV 3 months ago
oceanplexian 2y ago
EVs are nice at first but if you enjoy cars as a hobby the problems become apparent. They all have the same torque curve, doesn’t matter if it’s a Tesla or a Kia or a GM. They are all as heavy as a truck, understeer like crazy and have over boosted steering. Most are difficult to maintain and the mfgr’s are downright hostile to backyard mechanics. On paper they can get great times around a track have instant torque and all the things we already know, but in real life they feel like a kitchen appliance. Some people like that and more power to them. For a gearhead it leaves so much to be desired.
- Shawnj2 2y ago
  The most popular cars in the US are the RAV4, Toyota Camry, ford f150, Tesla model 3, etc. the market has voted on stable and boring, I don’t think 90% of cars on the market by volume sold will lose really anything in the transition to electric tbh.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    God forbid people have hobbies that don't commit to groupthink.
    - Shawnj2 2y ago
      If like 5% of people keep buying gas powered sports cars or things like large trucks and SUV’s which are just expensive or less practical to electrify for their use case I don’t think it will particularly stem the tide of electrification in the US and that’s also ignoring manufacturers like lucid which are making esoteric expensive high performance EV’s.
      - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
        Are you seeing the same for motorcycles which are by far ICE based and not rushing to transition to electric?
        2y ago

nielsbot 2y ago

…but also morally? :) anyway i think this ad illustrates the difference nicely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn__9hLJKAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn__9hLJKAk

snovymgodym 2y ago
Eh. In most countries the majority of electricity generation still comes from fossil fuels so people are essentially doing what the ad is depicting just with extra steps. It's a good way to put the general wastefulness we exhibit with electricity into perspective though.
- triceratops 2y ago
  This is the kind of comment that sounds "wise" and "realistic". But it's important to think a bit deeper. Existing electricity generation goes to powering existing consumers. We'd burn those fossil fuels whether or not we bought more electric cars. Electric cars are a new electricity consumer. So the source of energy for this additional electricity is what matters. In 2022, 83% of new electric capacity was from renewable sources. [1] We can quibble about timing issues. For example, there's a lot of solar energy during the day but electric cars are often charged at night. But it's clear that renewable energy and electric cars are rising together. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_renewable_electricity_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_renewable...
- _aavaa_ 2y ago
  Not exactly. Power plants + EV is more efficient than burning gas in an ICE. Plus you remove the pollution from population centers. And of course the EV will get greaner over its lifespan as electricity production is transitioned away from fossil fuels.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  This is factually inaccurate. EVs from a fossil fuel grid are still cleaner than internal combustion (“well to wheel”). The grid keeps getting cleaner every year, a combustion vehicle burns petroleum its entire life.
- 39896880 2y ago
  An ICE vehicle will always and forever run on fossil fuels. An EV may start its life getting electricity generated from fossil fuels but can get its power from whatever the generation changes to
- solumunus 2y ago
  This is level 1 thinking. Go a bit deeper buddy, you can do it!
- smileysteve 2y ago
  Efficiencies of Scale is a thing, as is specialization of technology. Power plants can run at near constant rpm, and power thousands of households; inspections of emissions equipment and practices at that site can be enforced and fixed. Versus the same thousands of cars, a few have a check engine light on, a few have a leaking oil gasket, a few have a worn out ignition system, some of them bought contaminated gas. Any parking lot oil stain disproves you.

cbeach 2y ago

The delayed throttle response is really aggravating whenever I get into an ICE car. And the noise, the vibration and the smell of the fumes. You really start noticing these things around you when you’ve got used to the clean and silent operation of an BEV. And I’ve certainly noticed the cost savings - going from filling a tank with £60 of petrol to charging my car conveniently at home for £5

gist 2y ago
> And the noise, the vibration and the smell of the fumes. In this day and age? Which car do you 'smell the fumes' or 'the vibration' unless the vibration is intentional (for the experience).
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  I certainly smell the fumes when I fill the tank.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  Unless you’re driving a very high end car, pretty much any ICE definitely vibrates. It’s especially noticeable at start/stop with cars equipped with auto start stop. Also, the older the car, the more you’ll start getting weird smells and more vibrations. Oil leaks, motor mounts wearing out, etc. Most of those can be fixed, but who hasn’t driven a car earlier in their youth that perhaps wasn’t in the best shape? I knew a guy who drove a car that he had to put a liter of oil in it every 1000mi… none of those are problems with an EV besides perhaps aging suspension components.
mint2 2y ago
Stop start engines on non-hybrid cars are a shock. Takes that delayed throttle response to a new level.
FirmwareBurner 2y ago
>charging my car conveniently at home for £5 Emphasis on the "at home" part. Unless you have your own home with private parking and charger, EV ownership is a pain due to how expensive ,lacking and shit public charging infrastructure is. I'll have to stick to an ICE until they fix those since owning a house with my own parking space doesn't seem to be on the cards for me financially. People somehow forget this demographic exists.

crmd 2y ago

There’s nothing on earth like the low end torque of an electric car. Everyone should experience it once. But I went back to ICE the same way i go back to vacuum tube guitar amps.

dyauspitr 2y ago

I’ve had a Ford F-150 Lightning for about 6 months and ICE vehicles viscerally feel poisonous and clunky. The responsiveness, torque, quiet, low cost of use, low maintenance and just how clean they are (no poisons spewed) is just something I can’t give up anymore. There are still problems with range and charge times specifically for a truck but we are very close. A doubling of the standard range and a halving of the charge time would make ICE irrelevant in the truck space outside of very long distance towing.

meowster 2y ago
I'm looking forward to the new Ramcharger (new plug-in hybrid truck, not the old SUV). Hopefully Stellantis gets its act together.
- Salgat 2y ago
  They're actually working on using the ramcharger powertrain in a new wagoneer. I'm so excited for that.
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  The new Chevy Silverado EV has a massive 200kwh battery and 275kw charging. That’s going to be an absolute minimum of 300 miles of range and more realistically 400-500 miles per charge.

powerbroker 2y ago

The constant explosions in four different compartments might have something to do with it feeling wrong. I wonder if anyone can tell us how many mounts support the engine and give it some opportunity to dampen the explosions -- and through what apparatus.

syndicatedjelly 2y ago
My last car had a v8 engine mounted on hydraulic engine mounts, and you could hardly feel the engine (but certainly hear it). The sound was glorious, and it’s the only thing I miss about that car having gone to EV 3 months ago

oceanplexian 2y ago

EVs are nice at first but if you enjoy cars as a hobby the problems become apparent. They all have the same torque curve, doesn’t matter if it’s a Tesla or a Kia or a GM. They are all as heavy as a truck, understeer like crazy and have over boosted steering. Most are difficult to maintain and the mfgr’s are downright hostile to backyard mechanics. On paper they can get great times around a track have instant torque and all the things we already know, but in real life they feel like a kitchen appliance. Some people like that and more power to them. For a gearhead it leaves so much to be desired.

Shawnj2 2y ago
The most popular cars in the US are the RAV4, Toyota Camry, ford f150, Tesla model 3, etc. the market has voted on stable and boring, I don’t think 90% of cars on the market by volume sold will lose really anything in the transition to electric tbh.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  God forbid people have hobbies that don't commit to groupthink.
  - Shawnj2 2y ago
    If like 5% of people keep buying gas powered sports cars or things like large trucks and SUV’s which are just expensive or less practical to electrify for their use case I don’t think it will particularly stem the tide of electrification in the US and that’s also ignoring manufacturers like lucid which are making esoteric expensive high performance EV’s.
    - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
      Are you seeing the same for motorcycles which are by far ICE based and not rushing to transition to electric?
      - 2y ago