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The Martin Garrix interview they linked to was kinda famous for blatantly showing him using pirated software plugins: https://youtu.be/CfCmoEixxro?t=558 https:/

The Martin Garrix interview they linked to was kinda famous for blatantly showing him using pirated software plugins: https://youtu.be/CfCmoEixxro?t=558 https://youtu.be/CfCmoEixxro?t=558 Here he's using Sylenth1 licensed to "Team A.I.R." ...a well-known VST piracy org: https://audiosex.pro/threads/team-air.41932/ https://audiosex.pro/threads/team-air.41932/ Just goes to show, you might build the tool that makes the next club banger or viral social platform, but good luck making anyone, pros or hobbyists, pay for it.

kev009 2y ago
It unfortunately leads to subscription models. That doesn't directly prevent piracy, but the lower entry cost and the potential for regular "value add" will keep more people paying up (see Reason+, Slate Digital, Roland Cloud, Splice, etc)
- tgv 2y ago
  Idk. Was ilok ever cracked?
  - copperx 2y ago
    No. It's always interesting to me how music apps were the only ones adopting hardware copy protection wholeheartedly. Multi-thousand dollar scientific apps? nope. Music apps.
    - itsthejb 2y ago
      That’s not surprising at all. I don’t about the scientific apps you’re talking about, but I assume that their user base would be accessing them through academic site licenses. Music apps, however, would be predominantly used by hobbyists, a few of which would later make it big. The problem was/is that the price tags assumed studio budgets. But if you wanted those studio sounds at home, well the price is a big challenge until you start making solid money. Which is even fewer
    - stonethrowaway 2y ago
      Didn’t CAD automation software also adopt it? I remember MasterCam, SolidWorks and others needing hardware dongles. The market for that is tiny compared to music but, the money made basically guaranteed given adoption rates. Even today I think there are too few contenders to pose a significant market risk to these companies.
      - aetherspawn 2y ago
        I think these have modernised, because SolidWorks now uses floating e-licenses for example. From a consumer perspective hardware dongles are mega-problematic right now because of the USB C vs USB A debacle on new laptops, and also because many AVs now block USB devices by default and require ITS admin to unblock it. From a distributor perspective, they require shipping physical product to customers which reduces margins and can take weeks, especially-so when you talk about shipping from overseas.
      - oakmad 2y ago
        They did. I worked in a technical college in the 90s and Autodesk and others were huge fans of the single plugged into the serial port. Was a huge problem not only daisy chaining them all together but also they would get stolen if not secured. We’d ribbon cable them back inside the case where’d there would be a many inches of dongle precariously joined. Fond memories.
      - NikkiA 2y ago
        CAD/CAM has mostly been FlexLM protected for as long as I remember. Flex used a hardware dongle for a while, but then moved away from it.
  - NikkiA 2y ago
    There's no one 'ilok' protection scheme, there are many. And most of them have been cracked.
    - tgv 2y ago
      How so? I always figured it was simply a decryption service/library with the dongle serving as a the secret. So e.g. samples (or important information about the samples) can only be read when the dongle is present. Is that view too simple?
      - NikkiA 2y ago
        I'm only able to go by what R2R put in their .nfos, since I've not tried reverse engineering ilok plugins at all. But they claim that different companies use different ilok algorithms, and some of them haven't been cracked, yet. Some seem to work a little like what you say, UVIs for example decrypt libraries against the ilok, and R2R has UVIEMU for that, but clearly it's not sufficient to crack all ilok plugins that way, or Softube's wouldn't remain uncracked. And since ilok doesn't require a dongle anymore - there are machine and cloud licensing options too, and developers can opt in or out to each of the 3 license holder systems...
  - jasondoty 2y ago
    Yes, by R2R
musicale 2y ago
Haha, surely he can afford to pay for VSTs. And Sylenth1 (a classic and still eminently usable soft synth) is reasonably priced and worth paying for. I have a bit of sympathy though, since managing plugin licensing is a total pain. Licenses seem to break randomly, or after any OS security patch or DAW update/bug fix, and then your project no longer runs properly. Kind of the last thing you want if you are a practicing or performing musician. If I were him I'd consider using the pirate versions for reliability/usability but paying for new licenses yearly in order to support the plugin developers.
koito17 2y ago
You mean Team AiR ;) Between 2005 - 2010, many studios also had "a lot of water" in their computers, so to speak. (Referring to Team H2O) Incidents like these are unfortunately common among famous electronic music producers. Your comment reminded me of Steve Aoki being caught with a pirated copy of Sylenth1.[1] I recall hearing that he obtained a legitimate license for the software afterwards. Lastly, I recall the Sylenth1 developer around 2012 - 2015 encouraging people on Twitter to purchase the software rather than pirate it. Not sure how they found tweets mentioning piracy of the plugin, but I do think the plugin is reasonably priced compared to other plugins. Moreover, the license is perpetual. [1] https://torrentfreak.com/avicii-and-other-djs-produce-hits-using-pirated-software-150223/ https://torrentfreak.com/avicii-and-other-djs-produce-hits-u...
pier25 2y ago
IMO things have changed a lot since then. Plenty of audio dev companies that didn't exist back then are thriving. It's anecdotal but people around me are less inclined to install pirated stuff than 20+ years ago. The risk to install some malware and the consequences are higher than they were back then.
- sersi 2y ago
  Are the risks really higher? Somehow it seems that with specialized private trackers having more prominence and public trackers like pirate bay and KAT dying out, there's actually less chance of malware because pirated content is more curated.
  - pier25 2y ago
    Maybe but otoh we now have so much critical information stored in our computers (credit cards, personal documents, passwords, etc).
  - p0nce 2y ago
    Yes: https://www.welivesecurity.com/2019/06/20/loudminer-mining-cracked-vst-software/ https://www.welivesecurity.com/2019/06/20/loudminer-mining-c...

kev009 2y ago

It unfortunately leads to subscription models. That doesn't directly prevent piracy, but the lower entry cost and the potential for regular "value add" will keep more people paying up (see Reason+, Slate Digital, Roland Cloud, Splice, etc)

tgv 2y ago
Idk. Was ilok ever cracked?
- copperx 2y ago
  No. It's always interesting to me how music apps were the only ones adopting hardware copy protection wholeheartedly. Multi-thousand dollar scientific apps? nope. Music apps.
  - itsthejb 2y ago
    That’s not surprising at all. I don’t about the scientific apps you’re talking about, but I assume that their user base would be accessing them through academic site licenses. Music apps, however, would be predominantly used by hobbyists, a few of which would later make it big. The problem was/is that the price tags assumed studio budgets. But if you wanted those studio sounds at home, well the price is a big challenge until you start making solid money. Which is even fewer
  - stonethrowaway 2y ago
    Didn’t CAD automation software also adopt it? I remember MasterCam, SolidWorks and others needing hardware dongles. The market for that is tiny compared to music but, the money made basically guaranteed given adoption rates. Even today I think there are too few contenders to pose a significant market risk to these companies.
    - aetherspawn 2y ago
      I think these have modernised, because SolidWorks now uses floating e-licenses for example. From a consumer perspective hardware dongles are mega-problematic right now because of the USB C vs USB A debacle on new laptops, and also because many AVs now block USB devices by default and require ITS admin to unblock it. From a distributor perspective, they require shipping physical product to customers which reduces margins and can take weeks, especially-so when you talk about shipping from overseas.
    - oakmad 2y ago
      They did. I worked in a technical college in the 90s and Autodesk and others were huge fans of the single plugged into the serial port. Was a huge problem not only daisy chaining them all together but also they would get stolen if not secured. We’d ribbon cable them back inside the case where’d there would be a many inches of dongle precariously joined. Fond memories.
    - NikkiA 2y ago
      CAD/CAM has mostly been FlexLM protected for as long as I remember. Flex used a hardware dongle for a while, but then moved away from it.
- NikkiA 2y ago
  There's no one 'ilok' protection scheme, there are many. And most of them have been cracked.
  - tgv 2y ago
    How so? I always figured it was simply a decryption service/library with the dongle serving as a the secret. So e.g. samples (or important information about the samples) can only be read when the dongle is present. Is that view too simple?
    - NikkiA 2y ago
      I'm only able to go by what R2R put in their .nfos, since I've not tried reverse engineering ilok plugins at all. But they claim that different companies use different ilok algorithms, and some of them haven't been cracked, yet. Some seem to work a little like what you say, UVIs for example decrypt libraries against the ilok, and R2R has UVIEMU for that, but clearly it's not sufficient to crack all ilok plugins that way, or Softube's wouldn't remain uncracked. And since ilok doesn't require a dongle anymore - there are machine and cloud licensing options too, and developers can opt in or out to each of the 3 license holder systems...
- jasondoty 2y ago
  Yes, by R2R

musicale 2y ago

Haha, surely he can afford to pay for VSTs. And Sylenth1 (a classic and still eminently usable soft synth) is reasonably priced and worth paying for. I have a bit of sympathy though, since managing plugin licensing is a total pain. Licenses seem to break randomly, or after any OS security patch or DAW update/bug fix, and then your project no longer runs properly. Kind of the last thing you want if you are a practicing or performing musician. If I were him I'd consider using the pirate versions for reliability/usability but paying for new licenses yearly in order to support the plugin developers.

koito17 2y ago

You mean Team AiR ;) Between 2005 - 2010, many studios also had "a lot of water" in their computers, so to speak. (Referring to Team H2O) Incidents like these are unfortunately common among famous electronic music producers. Your comment reminded me of Steve Aoki being caught with a pirated copy of Sylenth1.[1] I recall hearing that he obtained a legitimate license for the software afterwards. Lastly, I recall the Sylenth1 developer around 2012 - 2015 encouraging people on Twitter to purchase the software rather than pirate it. Not sure how they found tweets mentioning piracy of the plugin, but I do think the plugin is reasonably priced compared to other plugins. Moreover, the license is perpetual. [1] https://torrentfreak.com/avicii-and-other-djs-produce-hits-using-pirated-software-150223/ https://torrentfreak.com/avicii-and-other-djs-produce-hits-u...

pier25 2y ago

IMO things have changed a lot since then. Plenty of audio dev companies that didn't exist back then are thriving. It's anecdotal but people around me are less inclined to install pirated stuff than 20+ years ago. The risk to install some malware and the consequences are higher than they were back then.

sersi 2y ago
Are the risks really higher? Somehow it seems that with specialized private trackers having more prominence and public trackers like pirate bay and KAT dying out, there's actually less chance of malware because pirated content is more curated.
- pier25 2y ago
  Maybe but otoh we now have so much critical information stored in our computers (credit cards, personal documents, passwords, etc).
- p0nce 2y ago
  Yes: https://www.welivesecurity.com/2019/06/20/loudminer-mining-cracked-vst-software/ https://www.welivesecurity.com/2019/06/20/loudminer-mining-c...