4 ms·

It’s pretty nuts, putting out your dirty laundry in public is a surefire way to self sabotage - especially in a work setting. In American culture, there’s a lot

It’s pretty nuts, putting out your dirty laundry in public is a surefire way to self sabotage - especially in a work setting. In American culture, there’s a lot of “positive self help” talk about being open about these things. But the reality is - it actually just provides drama and ammunition to people who might not have your best interests at heart. Some things are best kept between your close trusted friends and family or therapist, no matter how trendy the culture is about being “open”.

TrainedMonkey 2y ago
> Some things are best kept between your close trusted friends and family or therapist, no matter how trendy the culture is about being “open”. This makes total sense if you have a therapist and / or have friends you can be vulnerable with (and know how to). But there are undoubtedly those who do not have that. For them the risk of career sabotage vs a change of improved quality of life might be worth considering. I don't know where the breakdown is, probably against mandatory sharing in the work setting on the account of an average workspace being pretty adversarial. However, if I could make a call for my younger self I would choose to share.
- Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
  I also agree with this sentiment but at the same time I think it boils down to how you interpret these things , for op it was one of the greatest things but to somebody else , this makes boss not likeable. I think this shows that the boss was going out of his way which I "personally" appreciate. I don't know what people expect managers / boss to do. Somebody on team expects their boss to X and somebody else on that same team expects their boss to be anything but X. If I ever become a manager , I am probably taking this boss's approach , I think its good to have some talks like this. I am also much inspired by the likes of charles schwab and dale carnegie's how to win friends and influence people so probably there is a bias here
  - thunky 2y ago
    > I don't know what people expect managers / boss to do What they do should be related to the company work, otherwise they're overstepping. They're not social workers. They have to respect the privacy and independence of their coworkers. > If I ever become a manager , I am probably taking this boss's approach Please don't. Coworkers can obviously have social relationships but they should grow organically without being "managed". You know the best way for that to happen is? Let them work together. They'll build their own relationships. They don't need your help. If they don't work together enough for this to happen naturally then they're strangers to each other anyway and that's ok too.
  - dymk 2y ago
    If you were my boss and did this I'd be going to my skip manager to complain.
    - captnObvious 2y ago
      It sounded like an optional request not a command. I’ve managed and I’ve been managed and the relationship ships I’ve built along the way are deep enough to have conversations like these. We’re doing life with this people it’s not a dystopian novel about capitalism. If you have a genuine person as your boss moments like these help form friendships, and don’t feel like a dark Dilbert comic. Friendships increase team communicability which bolster project success.
      - dymk 2y ago
        A manager asking you to do something is never “just” an optional request
        hhh 2y ago
        They absolutely can be. You can push back against your manager.
        twelve40 2y ago
- biorach 2y ago
  > For them the risk of career sabotage vs a change of improved quality of life might be worth considering The risk is way too high
DeathArrow 2y ago
It depends on your objectives. You can use those "confessions" to play the scenario to your advantage.
Nashooo 2y ago
In what way is this ever providing someone with 'ammunition' and how is this self-sabotage? What are you afraid someone would do with this kind of information? Reading this comment and others feels like people have read a bit too much Sun Tzu and are treating what could be collegiality as warfare.
- thdhhghgbhy 2y ago
  You haven't been in corporate long enough bub.
- whutmuffin 2y ago
  Maybe you’ve never worked at a company like this. Did you not see the note about his perf review, which had nothing to do with his performance (the actual outcome) but instead had random negative feedback? Like not involving coworkers enough? What if your “confession” indicated that you have a hard time opening up and involving others? Couching your feedback in a personal insecurity makes it far less likely it will be challenged since the person already has a complex about it.
  - cutemonster 2y ago
    > random negative feedback? Like not involving coworkers enough? You got the order of events wrong. That was with the first manager, before the "10% more vulnerable" meeting. (Not saying it's a good idea though.) (Or did you mean sth else?) From the article: > I told my team I was struggling with depression and took some time off. ... > My team was extremely supportive.
Tainnor 2y ago
> no matter how trendy the culture is about being “open” I've noticed this trend in recent years to be "open about mental health", etc. And I think by itself this is great, mental health is important. But invariably, especially in management/HR settings (or in the entertainment industry), it is done in an incredibly shallow way. Mental health is hard. Just talking openly isn't magically going to fix things and may even initially make things worse. It may release feelings that need to be carefully managed e.g. by a therapist. Obviously, no company would ever be able to provide that. Instead, they're just looking for "I started running every morning and was able to fix my depression" kind of stories.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- whatshisface 2y ago
  "I used to have anxiety over being a good developer, but then I realized that it was about hitting story points, not learning Rust. Now I deliver business value regularly and have been able to cancel my appointments with my therapist." "Being on-call 24/7 helps me feel like I'm a part of something, fulfilling a deep want for belonging that being kicked off the Girl Scout troop created in me." "I've always lacked a father figure. When you told me to spend less time browsing HackerNews and more time on Jira, I felt like I was part of a real family."
  - c0balt 2y ago
    That reminds me heavily of krazams's "I Have Delivered Value... But At What Cost?", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYvhC_RdIwQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYvhC_RdIwQ
ValentinA23 2y ago
This happened to me. The result: - secret slack room to help me overcome my depression (wasn't invited of course, I just spotted it several times while looking at my colleagues' screens) - lowest paid member in the team, while also being one of if not the most productive. 12x: verified. 30x: speculated if I had control over the architecture. - 70h/week, no vacations, for 3 years. No paid overtime of any form. - Double bind situation where I was used as a punching ball between the CTO and the #2 employee. - Excluded from secret negotiations to obtain a raise. You know what I did ? I quitted, cold turkey. That's when the CEO started to hate on me, feeling betrayed. The #2 left shortly after confiding he wanted to punch the CTO in the face. After realizing hiring someone to replace me wasn't cutting it, they distributed overtime to everybody on the team. Result: unionization. One year after my departure I received a call from the COO telling me he was willing to hire me back at the condition I would behave (since I was thrown at every hot issue, semantic propagation tied in their mind the idea I was also problematic). He was let go shortly after and replaced by a manager from the holding company (if you know what I mean). I haven't worked in 6-7 years. Most colleagues who left have had a similar empty period.
- a123b456c 2y ago
  I mean no harm, but I want to caution that you may have just over-shared in public again. I wish you well.
  - ValentinA23 2y ago
    Why do you think it could be problematic ?
    - paulryanrogers 2y ago
      Future employers may consider your HN history before they hire you, or even fire you if they discovered criticism of past employers.
      - dartos 2y ago
        I’ve never heard of this. Very creepy

TrainedMonkey 2y ago

> Some things are best kept between your close trusted friends and family or therapist, no matter how trendy the culture is about being “open”. This makes total sense if you have a therapist and / or have friends you can be vulnerable with (and know how to). But there are undoubtedly those who do not have that. For them the risk of career sabotage vs a change of improved quality of life might be worth considering. I don't know where the breakdown is, probably against mandatory sharing in the work setting on the account of an average workspace being pretty adversarial. However, if I could make a call for my younger self I would choose to share.

Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
I also agree with this sentiment but at the same time I think it boils down to how you interpret these things , for op it was one of the greatest things but to somebody else , this makes boss not likeable. I think this shows that the boss was going out of his way which I "personally" appreciate. I don't know what people expect managers / boss to do. Somebody on team expects their boss to X and somebody else on that same team expects their boss to be anything but X. If I ever become a manager , I am probably taking this boss's approach , I think its good to have some talks like this. I am also much inspired by the likes of charles schwab and dale carnegie's how to win friends and influence people so probably there is a bias here
- thunky 2y ago
  > I don't know what people expect managers / boss to do What they do should be related to the company work, otherwise they're overstepping. They're not social workers. They have to respect the privacy and independence of their coworkers. > If I ever become a manager , I am probably taking this boss's approach Please don't. Coworkers can obviously have social relationships but they should grow organically without being "managed". You know the best way for that to happen is? Let them work together. They'll build their own relationships. They don't need your help. If they don't work together enough for this to happen naturally then they're strangers to each other anyway and that's ok too.
- dymk 2y ago
  If you were my boss and did this I'd be going to my skip manager to complain.
  - captnObvious 2y ago
    It sounded like an optional request not a command. I’ve managed and I’ve been managed and the relationship ships I’ve built along the way are deep enough to have conversations like these. We’re doing life with this people it’s not a dystopian novel about capitalism. If you have a genuine person as your boss moments like these help form friendships, and don’t feel like a dark Dilbert comic. Friendships increase team communicability which bolster project success.
    - dymk 2y ago
      A manager asking you to do something is never “just” an optional request
      - hhh 2y ago
        They absolutely can be. You can push back against your manager.
        twelve40 2y ago
biorach 2y ago
> For them the risk of career sabotage vs a change of improved quality of life might be worth considering The risk is way too high

DeathArrow 2y ago

It depends on your objectives. You can use those "confessions" to play the scenario to your advantage.

Nashooo 2y ago

In what way is this ever providing someone with 'ammunition' and how is this self-sabotage? What are you afraid someone would do with this kind of information? Reading this comment and others feels like people have read a bit too much Sun Tzu and are treating what could be collegiality as warfare.

thdhhghgbhy 2y ago
You haven't been in corporate long enough bub.
whutmuffin 2y ago
Maybe you’ve never worked at a company like this. Did you not see the note about his perf review, which had nothing to do with his performance (the actual outcome) but instead had random negative feedback? Like not involving coworkers enough? What if your “confession” indicated that you have a hard time opening up and involving others? Couching your feedback in a personal insecurity makes it far less likely it will be challenged since the person already has a complex about it.
- cutemonster 2y ago
  > random negative feedback? Like not involving coworkers enough? You got the order of events wrong. That was with the first manager, before the "10% more vulnerable" meeting. (Not saying it's a good idea though.) (Or did you mean sth else?) From the article: > I told my team I was struggling with depression and took some time off. ... > My team was extremely supportive.

Tainnor 2y ago

> no matter how trendy the culture is about being “open” I've noticed this trend in recent years to be "open about mental health", etc. And I think by itself this is great, mental health is important. But invariably, especially in management/HR settings (or in the entertainment industry), it is done in an incredibly shallow way. Mental health is hard. Just talking openly isn't magically going to fix things and may even initially make things worse. It may release feelings that need to be carefully managed e.g. by a therapist. Obviously, no company would ever be able to provide that. Instead, they're just looking for "I started running every morning and was able to fix my depression" kind of stories.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
whatshisface 2y ago
"I used to have anxiety over being a good developer, but then I realized that it was about hitting story points, not learning Rust. Now I deliver business value regularly and have been able to cancel my appointments with my therapist." "Being on-call 24/7 helps me feel like I'm a part of something, fulfilling a deep want for belonging that being kicked off the Girl Scout troop created in me." "I've always lacked a father figure. When you told me to spend less time browsing HackerNews and more time on Jira, I felt like I was part of a real family."
- c0balt 2y ago
  That reminds me heavily of krazams's "I Have Delivered Value... But At What Cost?", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYvhC_RdIwQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYvhC_RdIwQ

ValentinA23 2y ago

This happened to me. The result: - secret slack room to help me overcome my depression (wasn't invited of course, I just spotted it several times while looking at my colleagues' screens) - lowest paid member in the team, while also being one of if not the most productive. 12x: verified. 30x: speculated if I had control over the architecture. - 70h/week, no vacations, for 3 years. No paid overtime of any form. - Double bind situation where I was used as a punching ball between the CTO and the #2 employee. - Excluded from secret negotiations to obtain a raise. You know what I did ? I quitted, cold turkey. That's when the CEO started to hate on me, feeling betrayed. The #2 left shortly after confiding he wanted to punch the CTO in the face. After realizing hiring someone to replace me wasn't cutting it, they distributed overtime to everybody on the team. Result: unionization. One year after my departure I received a call from the COO telling me he was willing to hire me back at the condition I would behave (since I was thrown at every hot issue, semantic propagation tied in their mind the idea I was also problematic). He was let go shortly after and replaced by a manager from the holding company (if you know what I mean). I haven't worked in 6-7 years. Most colleagues who left have had a similar empty period.

a123b456c 2y ago
I mean no harm, but I want to caution that you may have just over-shared in public again. I wish you well.
- ValentinA23 2y ago
  Why do you think it could be problematic ?
  - paulryanrogers 2y ago
    Future employers may consider your HN history before they hire you, or even fire you if they discovered criticism of past employers.
    - dartos 2y ago
      I’ve never heard of this. Very creepy