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That doesn't really make it any better, if you ask me. The entire Isolated Web Apps proposal is a massive breakdown of the well-established boundaries provided

by crote 2y ago

That doesn't really make it any better, if you ask me. The entire Isolated Web Apps proposal is a massive breakdown of the well-established boundaries provided by browsers. Every user understands two things about the internet: 1) check the URL before entering any sensitive data, and 2) don't run random stuff you download. The latter is heavily enforced by both Chrome and Windows complaining quite a bit if you're trying to run downloaded executables - especially unsigned ones. If you follow those two basic things, websites cannot hurt your machine. IWA seems to be turning this upside-down. Chrome is essentially completely bypassing all protections the OS has added, and allowing Magically Flagged Websites to do all sorts of dangerous stuff on your computer. No matter what kind of UX they provide, it is going to be nigh-on impossible to explain to people that websites are now suddenly able to do serious harm to your local network. Browsers should not be involved in this. They are intended to run untrusted code. No browser should be allowed to randomly start executing third-party code as if it is trustworthy, that's not what browsers are for. It's like the FDA suddenly allowing rat poison into food products - provided you inform consumers by adding it to the ingredients list of course.

apitman 2y ago
> Every user understands two things about the internet: 1) check the URL before entering any sensitive data, and 2) don't run random stuff you download I think you're severely overestimating the things every user knows.
girvo 2y ago
Unfortunately this is the future. Handing the world wide webs future to Google was a mistake, and the only remedy is likely to come from an (unlikely) antitrust breakup or divestment.
- bloomingkales 2y ago
  I doubt websites as we know it will be what we’ll be dealing with going forward anyways. What is a browser if we just digest all the HTML and spit out clean text in the long run? We handed over something of some value I guess, once upon a time.
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago
  > Handing the world wide webs future to Google Nobody handed anything to anyone. They go with the flow. The flow is driven by people who use their products. The browser is how Google delivers their products so it’s kinda difficult to blame them for trying to push the envelope but there are alternatives to Chrome.
  - troupo 2y ago
    > They go with the flow. The ancient history of just 10-15 years ago shows Google aggressively marketing Chrome across all of its not inconsiderable properties like search and Youtube, and sabotaging other browsers while they were at it: https://archive.is/2019.04.15-165942/https://twitter.com/johnath/status/1116871238922776576 https://archive.is/2019.04.15-165942/https://twitter.com/joh...
    - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
      Indeed. There was time I myself used it as my primary browser and recommended it to everyone around. That changed when they started insisting on signing into the account to „make the most out of it” so I went back to Firefox. Since then I stopped caring. I know, virtue signalling. My point is: nobody handed anything over to Google. At the time alternatives sucked so they won the market. But today we have great alternatives.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    And some developers shipping Chrome alongside their apps, instead of learning proper Web development.
derefr 2y ago
Does it help to think of it less as Chrome allowing websites to do XYZ, and more as a PWA API for offering to install full-fat browser-wrapper OS apps (like the Electron kind) — where these apps just so happen to “borrow” the runtime of the browser they were installed with, rather than shipping with (and thus having to update) their own?
rad_gruchalski 2y ago
The last time I used Chrome was about 3 years ago. You have a choice.
- eitland 2y ago
  Something always breaks my streak, but since last year or so I feel I am down to twice a year or something.
- pseudosavant 2y ago
  Only kind of. If you are on Mac you can use Safari. On Windows your options are Firefox or other versions of Chrome (Edge, Opera, Brave, etc), and Firefox will not work right enough, and it'll drive you to a version of Chrome.
mschuster91 2y ago
> If you follow those two basic things, websites cannot hurt your machine. Oh yes they can. Quite a bunch of "helper" apps - printer drivers are a bit notorious IME - open up local HTTP servers, and not all of them enforce CORS properly. Add some RCE or privilege escalation vulnerability in that helper app and you got yourself an 0wn-from-the-browser exploit chain.
- BenjiWiebe 2y ago
  How often does that actually happen?

by crote 2y ago

apitman 2y ago

> Every user understands two things about the internet: 1) check the URL before entering any sensitive data, and 2) don't run random stuff you download I think you're severely overestimating the things every user knows.

girvo 2y ago

Unfortunately this is the future. Handing the world wide webs future to Google was a mistake, and the only remedy is likely to come from an (unlikely) antitrust breakup or divestment.

bloomingkales 2y ago
I doubt websites as we know it will be what we’ll be dealing with going forward anyways. What is a browser if we just digest all the HTML and spit out clean text in the long run? We handed over something of some value I guess, once upon a time.
rad_gruchalski 2y ago
> Handing the world wide webs future to Google Nobody handed anything to anyone. They go with the flow. The flow is driven by people who use their products. The browser is how Google delivers their products so it’s kinda difficult to blame them for trying to push the envelope but there are alternatives to Chrome.
- troupo 2y ago
  > They go with the flow. The ancient history of just 10-15 years ago shows Google aggressively marketing Chrome across all of its not inconsiderable properties like search and Youtube, and sabotaging other browsers while they were at it: https://archive.is/2019.04.15-165942/https://twitter.com/johnath/status/1116871238922776576 https://archive.is/2019.04.15-165942/https://twitter.com/joh...
  - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
    Indeed. There was time I myself used it as my primary browser and recommended it to everyone around. That changed when they started insisting on signing into the account to „make the most out of it” so I went back to Firefox. Since then I stopped caring. I know, virtue signalling. My point is: nobody handed anything over to Google. At the time alternatives sucked so they won the market. But today we have great alternatives.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  And some developers shipping Chrome alongside their apps, instead of learning proper Web development.

derefr 2y ago

Does it help to think of it less as Chrome allowing websites to do XYZ, and more as a PWA API for offering to install full-fat browser-wrapper OS apps (like the Electron kind) — where these apps just so happen to “borrow” the runtime of the browser they were installed with, rather than shipping with (and thus having to update) their own?

rad_gruchalski 2y ago

The last time I used Chrome was about 3 years ago. You have a choice.

eitland 2y ago
Something always breaks my streak, but since last year or so I feel I am down to twice a year or something.
pseudosavant 2y ago
Only kind of. If you are on Mac you can use Safari. On Windows your options are Firefox or other versions of Chrome (Edge, Opera, Brave, etc), and Firefox will not work right enough, and it'll drive you to a version of Chrome.

mschuster91 2y ago

> If you follow those two basic things, websites cannot hurt your machine. Oh yes they can. Quite a bunch of "helper" apps - printer drivers are a bit notorious IME - open up local HTTP servers, and not all of them enforce CORS properly. Add some RCE or privilege escalation vulnerability in that helper app and you got yourself an 0wn-from-the-browser exploit chain.

BenjiWiebe 2y ago
How often does that actually happen?