5 ms·

Is there any other civil rights fight going on now that's more vicious than the fight over firearms rights? Maybe abortion rights, although I don't know of Plan

Is there any other civil rights fight going on now that's more vicious than the fight over firearms rights? Maybe abortion rights, although I don't know of Planned Parenthood doing anything like this.

falcolas 2y ago
State attorney generals are suing hospitals in other states to obtain information on both transgender and pregnant folk's visits, with the intent to use that information to prosecute those people in the AG's state. I'm not sure if that counts by your measure, but it involves the government directly.
- Dah00n 2y ago
  Sounds like a quote straight out of The Handmaids Tale! Reminds me of how Stasi operated. It also reminds me of the Signs Of Fascism list, actually.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  That's kind of baffling; like, I'd have to assume that _very_ few people, even people who were generally opposed to abortion, would be okay with _that_. I live in a country (Ireland) which only recently generally legalised abortion; before that people would normally have gone to the UK. If there had been any suggestion of the government prosecuting people who did that, never mind trying to force UK hospitals to divulge records, well... people wouldn't have put up with that. The situation as it was only continued so long because it was easy to ignore; ~no-one was ever actually prosecuted under the law, and the UK was enough of a safety valve that the human cost of the law was largely masked. Like, doing things like this seems like a very good way to stoke national outrage and be forced to legalise it.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    At least many people opposed to abortion ostensibly think that it's murder. Given that framing, trying to collect evidence from hospitals seems reasonable. (At least they say they they consider it murder. The way they act concerning it makes me think that relatively few really believe it.)
    - falcolas 2y ago
      > The way they act concerning it makes me think that relatively few really believe it.) Enough people in power believe it: At least one woman (Marshae Jones) was put in jail for getting shot while pregnant, while the shooter was let free. The woman was accused of not doing more to protect the "unborn baby". At least one woman (Brittney Poolaw) has been sentenced for having a miscarriage, and others have been arrested and charges brought against them.
      - AlexandrB 2y ago
        I looked up Brittney Poolaw. > Pregnancy advocates and others on social media are expressing outrage after a 21-year-old Oklahoma woman was convicted of first-degree manslaughter earlier this month for having a miscarriage, which the prosecutor blamed on her alleged use of methamphetamine.[1] I would argue she should be prosecuted (assuming the drug use can be proved) even if abortion in that state were legal right up until birth. This isn't a miscarriage due to natural causes or some kind of accident but due to drug use. Is the argument that the mother has absolutely no responsibility for the well-being of the fetus? [1] https://archive.is/QHV3F#selection-1145.0-1145.260 https://archive.is/QHV3F#selection-1145.0-1145.260 Edit: It seems like the case hinges on the claim that the meth caused the miscarriage. > Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.
        honeybadger1 2y ago
        They don't care, hurts the narrative.
        falcolas 2y ago
        I do care, about the woman and prosecutorial misconduct that used her to push an agenda - to promote the idea of "unborn children". She's a woman, belongs to a minority race, and a criminal. Yet I still believe she should have the same human rights as a white Christian man.
  - MBCook 2y ago
    That’s where we are in America. > Like, doing things like this seems like a very good way to stoke national outrage and be forced to legalise it. That is absolutely happened. As soon as Roe v. Wade was overturned this stuff went on a lot of ballots and in every case the restrictions lost. There are going to be a bunch of laws about it voted on in the election next Tuesday, as well as it being a very important thing in candidate races. We’ll see how it goes. The right has pushed this for decades, it was a popular issue for them. As soon as they finally got their way it appears to have backfired big time and galvanized a ton of people against them.
    - falcolas 2y ago
      > There are going to be a bunch of laws about it voted on in the election next Tuesday Also worth looking at is how these state constitutional amendments have been attacked before they were even up for vote, and how many plans are in place to attack the results. Even so, if the new president decides to, they can effectively destroy the ability to get an abortion anywhere in the US by using the Comstock Act; by enforcing a provision of the Comstock Act which prohibits the shipping of "... every article or thing designed, adapted, or intended for producing abortion."
      - MBCook 2y ago
        Not only that, I also know there have been changes/proposed changes to make it harder to submit possible amendments or to allow the legislature to override amendments that people vote for. All to prevent people from getting their say. Because it’s the “wrong” say.
  - bloopernova 2y ago
    The cruelty is the point. They and their supporters want to punish people who have the audacity to be unlike them in dress, thought, and deed. I'm deeply worried that the USA is headed towards a "dark valley" period, just like the Japanese in WW2.
    - falcolas 2y ago
      I'm holding out hope that we will avoid that kind of a period of time. The polls show a dead heat, but, well, when's the last time you answered a phone call which was marked as 'potential spam' or which came from an unknown number? My phone's been configured to block those entirely. And I'm a xennial. I think the poll results have been skewed by their reliance on cold calling people, and those cold calls probably only really hit those who are 50+. I don't believe the Republican party has anywhere near the same kind of support from those under 50.
      - rootusrootus 2y ago
        I tend to agree that support wanes with decreasing age, but anecdotally (I have kids in the middle school age bracket) there are a lot of young men swinging pretty hard to the right lately.
  - Modified3019 2y ago
    Child rape victims are now being forced to give birth in some states: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/aug/11/child-rape-survivors-abortion-ban https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/aug/11/chil... For monsters wearing human skin, the cruelty is the point.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  Prosecute transgender people for what? AFAIK there are no laws against being transgender in any state.
  - lazide 2y ago
    so far
  - Tobani 2y ago
    No but gender-reaffirming care could be. So some sort of hormonal treatment or even talk therapy.
    - falcolas 2y ago
      Is, unfortunately. And the biggest consumer of hormonal treatments as children (in the 99% range)? Cisgendered girls and boys who have no desire to transition. And though you didn't mention it, let's do a quick aside on gender affirming surgery: Boys with gynocomastia get mastectomies while girls get breast enlargements to improve their perception of their bodies.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    There are restrictions and bans on gender affirming care. Most often for minors, but also for adults. It's telling that most of these that are aimed at adults call out exceptions for Viagra. There are laws prohibiting drag shows which have been written so vaguely that they can be applied to trans people as well, especially those who do any kind of performance. Next up are laws forcing trans individuals to use the bathroom assigned to them at birth. I'm very curious how they expect women to react to bearded, burly men entering their bathrooms, and how they expect men to react to women presenting individuals (actually I'm quite sure of how they'll react: they'll be SA'ed if not killed). And then there's the bans on playing sports for Trans individuals - all 40 or so of them. So no, they're not explicitly outlawed, yet. Just everything about them living their life is. Much like it was never illegal to be gay, they just outlawed sodomy.
    - rsynnott 2y ago

falcolas 2y ago

State attorney generals are suing hospitals in other states to obtain information on both transgender and pregnant folk's visits, with the intent to use that information to prosecute those people in the AG's state. I'm not sure if that counts by your measure, but it involves the government directly.

Dah00n 2y ago
Sounds like a quote straight out of The Handmaids Tale! Reminds me of how Stasi operated. It also reminds me of the Signs Of Fascism list, actually.
rsynnott 2y ago
That's kind of baffling; like, I'd have to assume that _very_ few people, even people who were generally opposed to abortion, would be okay with _that_. I live in a country (Ireland) which only recently generally legalised abortion; before that people would normally have gone to the UK. If there had been any suggestion of the government prosecuting people who did that, never mind trying to force UK hospitals to divulge records, well... people wouldn't have put up with that. The situation as it was only continued so long because it was easy to ignore; ~no-one was ever actually prosecuted under the law, and the UK was enough of a safety valve that the human cost of the law was largely masked. Like, doing things like this seems like a very good way to stoke national outrage and be forced to legalise it.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  At least many people opposed to abortion ostensibly think that it's murder. Given that framing, trying to collect evidence from hospitals seems reasonable. (At least they say they they consider it murder. The way they act concerning it makes me think that relatively few really believe it.)
  - falcolas 2y ago
    > The way they act concerning it makes me think that relatively few really believe it.) Enough people in power believe it: At least one woman (Marshae Jones) was put in jail for getting shot while pregnant, while the shooter was let free. The woman was accused of not doing more to protect the "unborn baby". At least one woman (Brittney Poolaw) has been sentenced for having a miscarriage, and others have been arrested and charges brought against them.
    - AlexandrB 2y ago
      I looked up Brittney Poolaw. > Pregnancy advocates and others on social media are expressing outrage after a 21-year-old Oklahoma woman was convicted of first-degree manslaughter earlier this month for having a miscarriage, which the prosecutor blamed on her alleged use of methamphetamine.[1] I would argue she should be prosecuted (assuming the drug use can be proved) even if abortion in that state were legal right up until birth. This isn't a miscarriage due to natural causes or some kind of accident but due to drug use. Is the argument that the mother has absolutely no responsibility for the well-being of the fetus? [1] https://archive.is/QHV3F#selection-1145.0-1145.260 https://archive.is/QHV3F#selection-1145.0-1145.260 Edit: It seems like the case hinges on the claim that the meth caused the miscarriage. > Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said.
      - honeybadger1 2y ago
        They don't care, hurts the narrative.
        falcolas 2y ago
        I do care, about the woman and prosecutorial misconduct that used her to push an agenda - to promote the idea of "unborn children". She's a woman, belongs to a minority race, and a criminal. Yet I still believe she should have the same human rights as a white Christian man.
- MBCook 2y ago
  That’s where we are in America. > Like, doing things like this seems like a very good way to stoke national outrage and be forced to legalise it. That is absolutely happened. As soon as Roe v. Wade was overturned this stuff went on a lot of ballots and in every case the restrictions lost. There are going to be a bunch of laws about it voted on in the election next Tuesday, as well as it being a very important thing in candidate races. We’ll see how it goes. The right has pushed this for decades, it was a popular issue for them. As soon as they finally got their way it appears to have backfired big time and galvanized a ton of people against them.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    > There are going to be a bunch of laws about it voted on in the election next Tuesday Also worth looking at is how these state constitutional amendments have been attacked before they were even up for vote, and how many plans are in place to attack the results. Even so, if the new president decides to, they can effectively destroy the ability to get an abortion anywhere in the US by using the Comstock Act; by enforcing a provision of the Comstock Act which prohibits the shipping of "... every article or thing designed, adapted, or intended for producing abortion."
    - MBCook 2y ago
      Not only that, I also know there have been changes/proposed changes to make it harder to submit possible amendments or to allow the legislature to override amendments that people vote for. All to prevent people from getting their say. Because it’s the “wrong” say.
- bloopernova 2y ago
  The cruelty is the point. They and their supporters want to punish people who have the audacity to be unlike them in dress, thought, and deed. I'm deeply worried that the USA is headed towards a "dark valley" period, just like the Japanese in WW2.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    I'm holding out hope that we will avoid that kind of a period of time. The polls show a dead heat, but, well, when's the last time you answered a phone call which was marked as 'potential spam' or which came from an unknown number? My phone's been configured to block those entirely. And I'm a xennial. I think the poll results have been skewed by their reliance on cold calling people, and those cold calls probably only really hit those who are 50+. I don't believe the Republican party has anywhere near the same kind of support from those under 50.
    - rootusrootus 2y ago
      I tend to agree that support wanes with decreasing age, but anecdotally (I have kids in the middle school age bracket) there are a lot of young men swinging pretty hard to the right lately.
- Modified3019 2y ago
  Child rape victims are now being forced to give birth in some states: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/aug/11/child-rape-survivors-abortion-ban https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/aug/11/chil... For monsters wearing human skin, the cruelty is the point.
AlexandrB 2y ago
Prosecute transgender people for what? AFAIK there are no laws against being transgender in any state.
- lazide 2y ago
  so far
- Tobani 2y ago
  No but gender-reaffirming care could be. So some sort of hormonal treatment or even talk therapy.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    Is, unfortunately. And the biggest consumer of hormonal treatments as children (in the 99% range)? Cisgendered girls and boys who have no desire to transition. And though you didn't mention it, let's do a quick aside on gender affirming surgery: Boys with gynocomastia get mastectomies while girls get breast enlargements to improve their perception of their bodies.
- falcolas 2y ago
  There are restrictions and bans on gender affirming care. Most often for minors, but also for adults. It's telling that most of these that are aimed at adults call out exceptions for Viagra. There are laws prohibiting drag shows which have been written so vaguely that they can be applied to trans people as well, especially those who do any kind of performance. Next up are laws forcing trans individuals to use the bathroom assigned to them at birth. I'm very curious how they expect women to react to bearded, burly men entering their bathrooms, and how they expect men to react to women presenting individuals (actually I'm quite sure of how they'll react: they'll be SA'ed if not killed). And then there's the bans on playing sports for Trans individuals - all 40 or so of them. So no, they're not explicitly outlawed, yet. Just everything about them living their life is. Much like it was never illegal to be gay, they just outlawed sodomy.
  - rsynnott 2y ago