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Question: why are people having a tizzy about this specifically yet touting Apple Intelligence? - people are going to be using intelligence with Siri. Siri sen

Question: why are people having a tizzy about this specifically yet touting Apple Intelligence? - people are going to be using intelligence with Siri. Siri sends all transcripts to Apple, even if processed locally. Will this include text transcripts too? That’s some seriously private information that gets sent to Apple that you can’t opt out of. - have you looked at what’s in knowledge.db? People hissy with Microsoft’s product because of OCR of the screen or is that only a factor?

scblock 2y ago
This has nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with Microsoft.
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
  Apple has much to complain about, but Microsoft is really outdoing itself by pushing Recall so insistently. Key/screen loggers should not be part of the default OS no matter how much potential shareholder value they have.
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
> People hissy with Microsoft’s product because of OCR of the screen or is that only a factor? I mean that seems like an absolute mountain of a factor. Who asked for or would want this? Delivering the ingestion of agents before the consumer use-case was never going to work. At least apple intelligence (:rolleyes:) seems to be tailored around the hypothetical needs of users.
- footy 2y ago
  I guess some people do want it given that Rewind AI somehow exists. I don't understand it and I can't imagine how out of touch you'd have to be to make it the default, but weirdly the market for this is out there.
  - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
    > I guess some people do want it given that Rewind AI somehow exists. That doesn't imply anyone wants it. This is triply true for consumer products that are forced on consumers.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    I would probably find it useful but if and only if it's completely open source so I can see what it's doing, and it runs completely locally and under my management. Definitely not implemented like recall, built and managed by big tech.
- _boffin_ 2y ago
  After Claude Desktop’s release, I think it’s reasonable to presume a lot of people want this functionality.
  - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
    > After Claude Desktop’s release, I think it’s reasonable to presume a lot of people want this functionality. Release of a product does not imply any demand, especially for people outside the industry. People inside the industry should be considered insane until proven otherwise.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Yeah this seems to be more in the interest of Microsoft who can use the gathered data to understand the user's interests better. Of course this information will only be used to improve your experience by us and our 872 selected partners.
footy 2y ago
> people are going to be using intelligence with Siri. Siri sends all transcripts to Apple, even if processed locally. Will this include text transcripts too? That’s some seriously private information that gets sent to Apple that you can’t opt out of. I don't use Siri. I have never been interested in talking to my computer. So that's one way to opt out. On the other hand I kind of need a screen to use my computer.
- _boffin_ 2y ago
  I don’t use Siri because of the transcripts myself. I want to, but I don’t. I think you’ve skipped over the knowledgeC.db part. Know what that is and how it works?
  - footy 2y ago
    I didn't skip over it, I chose not to reply. My understanding of it is it collects metadata. It doesn't collect screenshots or do OCR, again as far as I know. It'd a completely different system from Recall.
mort96 2y ago
There's something about automatically taking screenshots of everything people do on their computers that creeps people out, it's weird
wkat4242 2y ago
A key and screen logger is what I consider malware. At least with Siri it can be disabled during the setup Wizard and you can choose to use it or not (i never do on Mac) And Apple intelligence is mostly local on device. I don't think I'll use it either as I have my own AI server already and I only use a Mac for work. But Apple's implementation is privacy-first, where Microsoft's is "get this to market first, worry about everything else later"
- w0m 2y ago
  > At least with Siri it can be disabled during the setup Wizard and you can choose to use it or not (i never do on Mac) How is that different than disabling Recall on first boot/setup?
  - nickthegreek 2y ago
    Microsoft has shown time and time again that they will gleefully reactivate things you have disabled and they will use dark patterns to hide their intent.
  - kvn8888 2y ago
    Microsoft is notorious for resetting user permissions randomly. Like after updates Options turn themselves on for some reason, historically speaking
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      I'm sure Copilot will get turned on when it sees my browsing history. I certainly did :)
  - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
    > How is that different than disabling Recall on first boot/setup? Microsoft is known for being utterly user-hostile when pushing features on people. I have a gaming PC I occasionally boot up and every single time I do so it harasses me to use their cloud service in a way that very much seems like it will restrict my ability to use my own computer if I don't. User trust is expensive to buy and cheap to relinquish!
almatabata 2y ago
Their security track record does not really help. I will never trust them again after they refused to tell their customer about a workaround because they wanted that juicy DoD contract (https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-solarwinds-golden-saml-data-breach-russian-hackers https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-solarwinds-gold...). Why would I trust that company with my data?
jchw 2y ago
I have a slight suspicion that the overlap between people upset about Recall and people excited for Apple Intelligence is very small. As for why the gap, let's be honest. Nobody has more loyalty to a giant corporation than many people do to Apple. You may speculate exactly why that is, but the reputation doesn't lie.
dartos 2y ago
Us Linux users are just here… using our computers…
- namaria 2y ago
  Truly, I game and I use Open Office and I cannot fathom why anyone would hold the position 'these corporate compute environments that I rent are just so convenient' over just having full control of the device where all their data lives.
neodymiumphish 2y ago
I forget who did the research, but I believe Recall data was being stored in SQlite on-device, unencrypted. Accessing that data from a malicious script or various applications interested in data collection would have been pretty impactful to end users. I assume they’ve changed functionality after that media, so I don’t know anything about its expected implementation anymore (and don’t particularly care, since my Windows device is just for games). aI, on the other hand, is very interesting because it runs locally from a custom LLM with some very interesting instructions pre built. I’m excited to see where it goes and Apple’s press during WWDC makes it clear that they’re extremely interested in a secure and private implementation.
- davesmylie 2y ago
  It's now encrypted on disk and access to the db is pretty much completely locked down. I think this is probably as good as it gets from a security pov, and completely misses the point of why this is an absolutely-terrible-no-good-idea in the first place. I only have windows 11 on my media pc (accidental upgrade that i've never bothered to revert) and I believe it is not able to run recall - but even on a media pc, the thought of MS taking screenshots every few seconds creeps me the f*ck out.
jmuguy 2y ago
Mostly had to do with the initial roll out. Was enabled by default. Stored data unencrypted in a simple SQLite DB. And yeah... taking screenshots constantly is literally what a lot of malware does so it freaked people out. knowledge.db maintaining a record of app usage and spotlight searches is not really an apt comparison.
- IcyWindows 2y ago
  "Initial rollout" was to testers only who are supposed to test things...

scblock 2y ago

This has nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with Microsoft.

ASalazarMX 2y ago
Apple has much to complain about, but Microsoft is really outdoing itself by pushing Recall so insistently. Key/screen loggers should not be part of the default OS no matter how much potential shareholder value they have.

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

> People hissy with Microsoft’s product because of OCR of the screen or is that only a factor? I mean that seems like an absolute mountain of a factor. Who asked for or would want this? Delivering the ingestion of agents before the consumer use-case was never going to work. At least apple intelligence (:rolleyes:) seems to be tailored around the hypothetical needs of users.

footy 2y ago
I guess some people do want it given that Rewind AI somehow exists. I don't understand it and I can't imagine how out of touch you'd have to be to make it the default, but weirdly the market for this is out there.
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  > I guess some people do want it given that Rewind AI somehow exists. That doesn't imply anyone wants it. This is triply true for consumer products that are forced on consumers.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  I would probably find it useful but if and only if it's completely open source so I can see what it's doing, and it runs completely locally and under my management. Definitely not implemented like recall, built and managed by big tech.
_boffin_ 2y ago
After Claude Desktop’s release, I think it’s reasonable to presume a lot of people want this functionality.
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  > After Claude Desktop’s release, I think it’s reasonable to presume a lot of people want this functionality. Release of a product does not imply any demand, especially for people outside the industry. People inside the industry should be considered insane until proven otherwise.
wkat4242 2y ago
Yeah this seems to be more in the interest of Microsoft who can use the gathered data to understand the user's interests better. Of course this information will only be used to improve your experience by us and our 872 selected partners.

footy 2y ago

> people are going to be using intelligence with Siri. Siri sends all transcripts to Apple, even if processed locally. Will this include text transcripts too? That’s some seriously private information that gets sent to Apple that you can’t opt out of. I don't use Siri. I have never been interested in talking to my computer. So that's one way to opt out. On the other hand I kind of need a screen to use my computer.

_boffin_ 2y ago
I don’t use Siri because of the transcripts myself. I want to, but I don’t. I think you’ve skipped over the knowledgeC.db part. Know what that is and how it works?
- footy 2y ago
  I didn't skip over it, I chose not to reply. My understanding of it is it collects metadata. It doesn't collect screenshots or do OCR, again as far as I know. It'd a completely different system from Recall.

mort96 2y ago

There's something about automatically taking screenshots of everything people do on their computers that creeps people out, it's weird

wkat4242 2y ago

A key and screen logger is what I consider malware. At least with Siri it can be disabled during the setup Wizard and you can choose to use it or not (i never do on Mac) And Apple intelligence is mostly local on device. I don't think I'll use it either as I have my own AI server already and I only use a Mac for work. But Apple's implementation is privacy-first, where Microsoft's is "get this to market first, worry about everything else later"

w0m 2y ago
> At least with Siri it can be disabled during the setup Wizard and you can choose to use it or not (i never do on Mac) How is that different than disabling Recall on first boot/setup?
- nickthegreek 2y ago
  Microsoft has shown time and time again that they will gleefully reactivate things you have disabled and they will use dark patterns to hide their intent.
- kvn8888 2y ago
  Microsoft is notorious for resetting user permissions randomly. Like after updates Options turn themselves on for some reason, historically speaking
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    I'm sure Copilot will get turned on when it sees my browsing history. I certainly did :)
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  > How is that different than disabling Recall on first boot/setup? Microsoft is known for being utterly user-hostile when pushing features on people. I have a gaming PC I occasionally boot up and every single time I do so it harasses me to use their cloud service in a way that very much seems like it will restrict my ability to use my own computer if I don't. User trust is expensive to buy and cheap to relinquish!

almatabata 2y ago

Their security track record does not really help. I will never trust them again after they refused to tell their customer about a workaround because they wanted that juicy DoD contract (https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-solarwinds-golden-saml-data-breach-russian-hackers https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-solarwinds-gold...). Why would I trust that company with my data?

jchw 2y ago

I have a slight suspicion that the overlap between people upset about Recall and people excited for Apple Intelligence is very small. As for why the gap, let's be honest. Nobody has more loyalty to a giant corporation than many people do to Apple. You may speculate exactly why that is, but the reputation doesn't lie.

dartos 2y ago

Us Linux users are just here… using our computers…

namaria 2y ago
Truly, I game and I use Open Office and I cannot fathom why anyone would hold the position 'these corporate compute environments that I rent are just so convenient' over just having full control of the device where all their data lives.

neodymiumphish 2y ago

I forget who did the research, but I believe Recall data was being stored in SQlite on-device, unencrypted. Accessing that data from a malicious script or various applications interested in data collection would have been pretty impactful to end users. I assume they’ve changed functionality after that media, so I don’t know anything about its expected implementation anymore (and don’t particularly care, since my Windows device is just for games). aI, on the other hand, is very interesting because it runs locally from a custom LLM with some very interesting instructions pre built. I’m excited to see where it goes and Apple’s press during WWDC makes it clear that they’re extremely interested in a secure and private implementation.

davesmylie 2y ago
It's now encrypted on disk and access to the db is pretty much completely locked down. I think this is probably as good as it gets from a security pov, and completely misses the point of why this is an absolutely-terrible-no-good-idea in the first place. I only have windows 11 on my media pc (accidental upgrade that i've never bothered to revert) and I believe it is not able to run recall - but even on a media pc, the thought of MS taking screenshots every few seconds creeps me the f*ck out.

jmuguy 2y ago

Mostly had to do with the initial roll out. Was enabled by default. Stored data unencrypted in a simple SQLite DB. And yeah... taking screenshots constantly is literally what a lot of malware does so it freaked people out. knowledge.db maintaining a record of app usage and spotlight searches is not really an apt comparison.

IcyWindows 2y ago
"Initial rollout" was to testers only who are supposed to test things...