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The precautionary principle plus what we know about heating plastic makes your reticence seem churlish. There are easy, safe alternatives in wood, metal and si
by MrSkelter 2y ago
The precautionary principle plus what we know about heating plastic makes your reticence seem churlish.
There are easy, safe alternatives in wood, metal and silicone. There’s no need to risk it.
- michaelt 2y agoIn my country we have some ridiculous newspapers that will publish any story with "may cause cancer" in the headline. So for a lot of people these stories are a boy-who-cried-wolf situation. Precautionary principle? I'm sorry to say stainless steel may leech heavy metals into food during cooking [1] And also silicone may leech potentially harmful chemicals into food [2] Nonstick coatings? Teflon flu "could be a real concern" [3] Wooden spoons are porous and can crack, making them a breeding ground for germs, and they can splinter [4] - and good luck finding a wooden spatula that doesn't suck. So personally I don't think it's churlish to take these warnings with a grain of salt. Especially for rarely-used pieces of cookware. [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4284091/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4284091/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19680914/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19680914/ [3] https://www.cnet.com/home/kitchen-and-household/teflon-flu-risks-safety-tips-and-nonstick-alternatives-for-cooking/ https://www.cnet.com/home/kitchen-and-household/teflon-flu-r... [4] https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1941959/replace-five-kitchen-tools-immediately-health-hazards-expert-advises https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1941959/replace-...
- reedf1 2y agoA well made point, but you won't get through. When you're in the fad, it's the center of the universe. Plus there will be an endless number of presently unknown medical worries and niggles. It all comes out in the wash, the best bet is diversification.
- ndsipa_pomu 2y agoI can relate to your distrust of the various click-baity headlines of papers, but Teflon flu is a real thing. It's easily avoided by not over-heating pans - keep them under 260°C and don't heat them when empty as that can result in hot spots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever
- jrmg 2y agoI think that’s kind of the point - all the things they listed are real things. Which are most important to avoid?
- em-bee 2y agoi only use wooden spoons and spatulas and i almost never had them crack or splinter. if an edge does break off i can use a knife or sandpaper to make it smooth. the only downside is that some spatulas are not thin enough on the front edge, making them more difficult to use for things like pancakes or omelettes. i always keep an eye out for good wooden spatulas. i had some quite nice ones over the years. and when i move i take them with me, just in case i can't get another good one in the next location.
- potato3732842 2y agoThe part that really drives me up the wall is that the demographics who decades ago decried plastics to be superior because they don't harbor bacteria like wood or break dangerously like glass are roughly the same ones who are now complaining about plastic. I don't have a cultural analogy for this situation but whatever it is is worse than "boy who cried wolf".
- CtrlAltmanDel 2y agoWhat an irrationally angry sentiment. Praytell, what "demographic" would this be?
- kbelder 2y ago'Busybodies'
- Brusco_RF 2y agoI am old enough to remember when we needed to switch to plastic bags over paper to "save the trees"
- blargey 2y agoDismissing the papers as lies is very different from considering your usage of the studied tools/materials, and deciding you're not actually recreating the failure-modes studied in the papers enough to worry about your current tools.
- Aachen 2y agoMaybe a stupid question, but how can I tell the difference between plastic and silicone? We use a black spatula that's flexible (shapes a bit to the curvature of what you're wiping, super convenient) and doesn't scratch the pan while not being porous like wood (where I always wonder how many bacteria live in these crevasses). It seems perfect and is being sold specifically for cooking so I assumed this plastic, if that's what it is, is safe for that. Now, reading the article, it says it's not, but then in the comments I read it may be yet another material. How can one tell what's what?
- alwayslikethis 2y agoSilicon is rubbery, but unlike rubber it is normally not sticky to either your hand or food.
- ndsipa_pomu 2y agoPlastic isn't as heat tolerant, so you could subject the utensils to high heat (200°C should do it) and see if they start to melt. Whilst it's a destructive test, it's probably worth destroying and replacing plastic utensils as silicone ones are much better. Edit: apparently you can tell the difference by squeezing them too - silicone will feel rubbery.
- dnpls 2y agoSide note: If you regularly and promptly clean your wooden utensils, bacteria and germs won't set in. Bacteria only becomes an issue when the wood splinters or is damaged in some way. Also "capillary action" takes place in wood, meaning water and/or bacteria on the outside of the wooden surface essentially diffuses into the wood, "choking out" the surface bacteria and therefore not providing them with a good environment on which to grow. Additionally, wood has antimicrobial properties.
- ndsipa_pomu 2y agoI recall hearing from somewhere that it's not so much the cleaning, but the drying that kills off the microbes.
- armada651 2y agoThe problem is that even when there are easy, safe alternatives trying to avoid every little risk in your life will drive you crazy. This is a clear case where a regulator should step in and just ban these black plastic utensils in favor of their safe alternatives. That way you're not just protected from exposure in your own kitchen, but also when joining your friends for dinner.
- Forgeties79 2y agoBeing deliberate about the materials you choose for your cookware is not the same as stressing out over every little risk in your life. For some people these are the materials that they use to prepare their food literally every day and one purchase will last years.
- xp84 2y ago> one purchase will last years Indeed. Although now I’m pretty annoyed about the 6 or so black plastic cooking utensils I received as a wedding gift nearly twenty years ago lasted this long, so I’ve been using them this whole time. Oh well, at least I don’t cook much :/
- CalRobert 2y agoSure, but this is pretty low hanging fruit. Moving to only metal and wood spatulas, cooking spoons, etc. has been a pretty cheap and easy switch. I would love to ALSO see regulation, but in the meantime I can at least improve things for myself.
- jrmg 2y agoThose are either going to (metal) scratch my non-stick pans, which I’m also told (on scant evidence I believe) causes cancer, or they’re (wood) going to be inflexible and hard to wash (can’t dishwasher them), which is inconvenient.
- NoGravitas 2y ago
- xmodem 2y agoWood is not dishwasher safe, metal will damage the cookware's non-stick coating, which may be worse than the plastic I'm trying to avoid. I guess that leaves silicone.
- adrianN 2y agoWood is technically not dishwasher safe, but I have wooden spoons that I’ve inherited from my grandma and they still hold up despite being in the dishwasher regularly.
- kristjansson 2y agoThe anecdata of this thread alone might be enough to re-categorize wood spoons as dishwasher safe.
- palmtree3000 2y agoSilicone is not rigid, which is sometimes a problem.
- emddudley 2y agoIf we're talking about health and cookware, you're not going to want nonstick cookware.
- mega_dingus 2y agoDidn't read the whole comment did you?
- ndsipa_pomu 2y agoIt's fine if it's not scratched and you don't overheat it.
- hanniabu 2y ago> don't overheat it Good luck with that. Temperature isn't perfect and hot pockets of higher temperatures form.
- canadianfella 2y ago[dead]
- IG_Semmelweiss 2y agoI'll add to that. 18/0 stainless steel is the best. No nickel etc.
- nox101 2y agoin California, every metal utensil is marked with "causes cancer"
- bigstrat2003 2y ago"Should I risk this?" is the wrong question in life. The burden of proof, as it were, is on those who are alleging a risk. I'm not gonna go through life worrying about every little thing just because it might be a problem. That goes double because people are constantly finding new things to worry about, most of which amount to nothing in the end.
- yadaeno 2y agoObesity 5% to 42%, Alzheimer’s 0% to 33% in the last century. I think there’s a balance between being neurotic and being blissfully ignorant, but given the high level health data in the west it’s probably time to be more neurotic.
- Jeff_Brown 2y agoHolding its probability constant, if the cost of avoiding a risk is sufficiently low and the potential harm sufficiently high, avoiding it is more rational than both looking further into it or taking it.
- lowbloodsugar 2y agoThat would make sense in a just society. Here in the USA, I would factor evidence in such as, do corporations have a habit of using chemicals that are later shown to be toxic? Do corporations prefer to let people die rather than recall, say an exploding car? Do corporation put out armies of lawyers and doctors to convince everyone that their product does not cause lung cancer? Do corporations now use automation to brigade and create the appearance of a majority?