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Do you truly expect any steam games to have anything like a root kit that’d exfiltrate your credentials? I feel if this were the case literally anything I inst

by Aeolun 2y ago

Do you truly expect any steam games to have anything like a root kit that’d exfiltrate your credentials? I feel if this were the case literally anything I install on my PC would be suspect. Installing ssh would be a much more scary thing than a random steam game.

wodenokoto 2y ago
No, he expects the root kit will open up his machine to automated worms.
m463 2y ago
I thought some games snooped through your system. Kerbal Space Program comes to mind, I recall it had adware that did this.
- Delk 2y ago
  Unity has some kind of data collection that can be used for analytics and advertising, so you might need to opt out of that in a Unity game. I think that came up in KSP as well. https://unity.com/legal/game-player-and-app-user-privacy-policy https://unity.com/legal/game-player-and-app-user-privacy-pol... https://unity.com/legal/game-player-and-app-user-privacy-faq https://unity.com/legal/game-player-and-app-user-privacy-faq
westpfelia 2y ago
The concern is that malicious actors can take advantage of what is certainly a poorly written rootkit.
gspetr 2y ago
>Do you truly expect any steam games to have anything like a root kit that’d exfiltrate your credentials? https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/steam-game-mod-breached-to-push-password-stealing-malware/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/steam-game-mo... "Downfall, a fan expansion for the popular Slay the Spire indie strategy game, was breached on Christmas Day to push Epsilon information stealer malware using the Steam update system. Once installed on a compromised computer, the malware will collect cookies and saved passwords and credit cards from web browsers (Google Chrome, Yandex, Microsoft Edge, Mozilla Firefox, Brave, Vivaldi), as well as Steam and Discord info. It will also look for documents containing 'password' in the filenames and for more credentials, including the local Windows login and Telegram."
- maccard 2y ago
  That's not a steam game, that's a user mod (read: random binary downloaded from the internet and executed). Also, it doesn't need kernel level access to do any of that stuff, it can get by just fine with normal application level permissions. This is no different to downloading a random binary off the internet and being surprised it's malicious.
  - remnantdiving 2y ago
    patched: https://hackerone.com/reports/470520 https://hackerone.com/reports/470520 https://hackerone.com/reports/1070835 https://hackerone.com/reports/1070835 https://secret.club/2021/04/20/source-engine-rce-invite.html https://secret.club/2021/04/20/source-engine-rce-invite.html https://secret.club/2020/10/30/alien-swarm-rce.html https://secret.club/2020/10/30/alien-swarm-rce.html https://threatpost.com/dark-souls-servers-down-rce-bug/177896/ https://threatpost.com/dark-souls-servers-down-rce-bug/17789... https://blog.thalium.re/posts/achieving-remote-code-execution-in-steam-remote-play https://blog.thalium.re/posts/achieving-remote-code-executio... https://www.pcgamer.com/garrys-mod-cough-virus-is-cured-but-it-could-have-been-worse/ https://www.pcgamer.com/garrys-mod-cough-virus-is-cured-but-... you can buy these games in their unpatched state today, and download a poc for them from github too: https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2018-10718 https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2018-10718 https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2018-20817 https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2018-20817 frankly playing video games on a dedicated device and network is the reasonable response to reading this shit
    - keyringlight 2y ago
      I've been wondering is how long before we get a 'PC-console' dedicated gaming device, there's certain aspects where PC is falling into the gravity well of the console model. Whether that's the technical aspects like how far you can lock down for security (and who's security) or DRM, whether people only want a nice front end, whether everything should be managed by a defacto 'good' platform holder versus allowing companies to do their own thing (clients or commerce). At some point such a thing looks like a more expensive ultra-pro console. Then that has to be balanced against the freedom aspect where people want flexibility to build a workstation how they want and do what they want on it, and expecting it all to work (windows games being supported on non-windows is a more common issue now). PC casts the broadest net and catches a lot of different desires, similar with how high-end and low-end seem to be splitting over the past ~5 years rather than being a continuous spectrum I wonder if there will be distinct types of PC for gaming (eg set models like the old Commodore Amiga) or if trying to resist splits does more harm than good.
steelframe 2y ago
> root kit that’d exfiltrate your credentials Yes. I truly believe some janky random anti-cheat kernel module could very well capture telemetry about my keystrokes to a log and then send that log off to a server. At the very least I don't trust that it's secure enough to be in the kernel of a machine for which I require any degree of trust in its integrity.
LinXitoW 2y ago
I don't expect that. I expect that publicly traded companies will cut corners in developing their kernel extension (like always), turning them into literal root kits waiting for anyone willing to exploit them. See: https://www.trendmicro.com/en_us/research/22/h/ransomware-actor-abuses-genshin-impact-anti-cheat-driver-to-kill-antivirus.html https://www.trendmicro.com/en_us/research/22/h/ransomware-ac...

by Aeolun 2y ago

wodenokoto 2y ago

No, he expects the root kit will open up his machine to automated worms.

m463 2y ago

I thought some games snooped through your system. Kerbal Space Program comes to mind, I recall it had adware that did this.

Delk 2y ago
Unity has some kind of data collection that can be used for analytics and advertising, so you might need to opt out of that in a Unity game. I think that came up in KSP as well. https://unity.com/legal/game-player-and-app-user-privacy-policy https://unity.com/legal/game-player-and-app-user-privacy-pol... https://unity.com/legal/game-player-and-app-user-privacy-faq https://unity.com/legal/game-player-and-app-user-privacy-faq

westpfelia 2y ago

The concern is that malicious actors can take advantage of what is certainly a poorly written rootkit.

gspetr 2y ago

>Do you truly expect any steam games to have anything like a root kit that’d exfiltrate your credentials? https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/steam-game-mod-breached-to-push-password-stealing-malware/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/steam-game-mo... "Downfall, a fan expansion for the popular Slay the Spire indie strategy game, was breached on Christmas Day to push Epsilon information stealer malware using the Steam update system. Once installed on a compromised computer, the malware will collect cookies and saved passwords and credit cards from web browsers (Google Chrome, Yandex, Microsoft Edge, Mozilla Firefox, Brave, Vivaldi), as well as Steam and Discord info. It will also look for documents containing 'password' in the filenames and for more credentials, including the local Windows login and Telegram."

maccard 2y ago
That's not a steam game, that's a user mod (read: random binary downloaded from the internet and executed). Also, it doesn't need kernel level access to do any of that stuff, it can get by just fine with normal application level permissions. This is no different to downloading a random binary off the internet and being surprised it's malicious.
- remnantdiving 2y ago
  patched: https://hackerone.com/reports/470520 https://hackerone.com/reports/470520 https://hackerone.com/reports/1070835 https://hackerone.com/reports/1070835 https://secret.club/2021/04/20/source-engine-rce-invite.html https://secret.club/2021/04/20/source-engine-rce-invite.html https://secret.club/2020/10/30/alien-swarm-rce.html https://secret.club/2020/10/30/alien-swarm-rce.html https://threatpost.com/dark-souls-servers-down-rce-bug/177896/ https://threatpost.com/dark-souls-servers-down-rce-bug/17789... https://blog.thalium.re/posts/achieving-remote-code-execution-in-steam-remote-play https://blog.thalium.re/posts/achieving-remote-code-executio... https://www.pcgamer.com/garrys-mod-cough-virus-is-cured-but-it-could-have-been-worse/ https://www.pcgamer.com/garrys-mod-cough-virus-is-cured-but-... you can buy these games in their unpatched state today, and download a poc for them from github too: https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2018-10718 https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2018-10718 https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2018-20817 https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2018-20817 frankly playing video games on a dedicated device and network is the reasonable response to reading this shit
  - keyringlight 2y ago
    I've been wondering is how long before we get a 'PC-console' dedicated gaming device, there's certain aspects where PC is falling into the gravity well of the console model. Whether that's the technical aspects like how far you can lock down for security (and who's security) or DRM, whether people only want a nice front end, whether everything should be managed by a defacto 'good' platform holder versus allowing companies to do their own thing (clients or commerce). At some point such a thing looks like a more expensive ultra-pro console. Then that has to be balanced against the freedom aspect where people want flexibility to build a workstation how they want and do what they want on it, and expecting it all to work (windows games being supported on non-windows is a more common issue now). PC casts the broadest net and catches a lot of different desires, similar with how high-end and low-end seem to be splitting over the past ~5 years rather than being a continuous spectrum I wonder if there will be distinct types of PC for gaming (eg set models like the old Commodore Amiga) or if trying to resist splits does more harm than good.

steelframe 2y ago

> root kit that’d exfiltrate your credentials Yes. I truly believe some janky random anti-cheat kernel module could very well capture telemetry about my keystrokes to a log and then send that log off to a server. At the very least I don't trust that it's secure enough to be in the kernel of a machine for which I require any degree of trust in its integrity.

LinXitoW 2y ago

I don't expect that. I expect that publicly traded companies will cut corners in developing their kernel extension (like always), turning them into literal root kits waiting for anyone willing to exploit them. See: https://www.trendmicro.com/en_us/research/22/h/ransomware-actor-abuses-genshin-impact-anti-cheat-driver-to-kill-antivirus.html https://www.trendmicro.com/en_us/research/22/h/ransomware-ac...