4 ms·

The most recent study I saw showed that Denuvo significantly helps revenue capture within the first few months of a game's release https://www.sciencedirect.co

The most recent study I saw showed that Denuvo significantly helps revenue capture within the first few months of a game's release https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1875952124002532 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S18759...

grayhatter 2y ago
I can't figure out what that article is trying to prove. "When DRM remains uncracked, we can't detect any losses due to piracy." well duh. Does it otherwise effect sales? Do any small games use it, or just large studios?
bitwize 2y ago
[flagged]
- lomase 2y ago
  As Gabe Newell said "piracy is a service problem" I could pirate every game I have on my Steam account. I don't do it because the added value that Steam gives me.
  - m463 2y ago
    A better example would be GOG.
  - bhelkey 2y ago
    > I could pirate every game I have on my Steam account. According to the CrackWatch subreddit, there were 29 games released with Denuvo in 2024. Of those, only one has been cracked and it was done via a demo bypass [1]. You can pirate many games but not, for example, Final Fantasy XVI. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/CrackWatch/comments/p9ak4n/crack_watch_games/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CrackWatch/comments/p9ak4n/crack_wa...
    - Topfi 2y ago
      Maybe I should clarify, I personally can see the value to cooperations of having protections in place during the initial sales period, when these meassures have been shown to make an impact. My comment was more pointed at the fact that of the people I personally know that are very much opposed to the use of Denuvo specifically, very few wouldn't buy a game they want because of its use, yet they still very consistently complain about the presence of Denuvo. Essentially, my point was that from where I am sitting, a large contingent of gamers complain about things without adjusting their behavior accordingly. I also feel (again, purely subjective) that the less someone complains about pre-ordering, the less likely they are to actually engage in pre-ordering. That being said, beyond the first few months, I remain convinced that overly aggressive DRM does negatively impact game preservation, which is why I like the compromise some studios started engaging in of removing certain DRM meassures a few months post release. I recently bought two racing games from my childhood on eBay as new-old-stock physical media. One of the twos aggressive and no longer maintained DRMs made my Windows VM unbootable and I cannot access the game without relying on the work of pirates in circumventing that. Also, I will point out that defending DRM as something that protects artists as you did doesn't fully track considering one of the uncracked Denuvo games in the list you linked is Hi-Fi Rush, an exceptional game and financial success that was critically acclaimed and made by talented creatives who are now out of a job [0], not because of piracy, but because of corporate mismanagement. Whether and by how much DRM can protect profits, we can discuss that for days, but I have yet to see evidence that it ever directly benefits the creatives you mention, not least because outside of corporate games studios, where ones job security doesn't appear linked to game quality or sales, in the indie scene, few if any can afford solutions like Denuvo, so the one place where developers could directly benefit from it, they can't either. Circling back to preservation, artists generally want to be able to learn from eachother and games outside the current generation can have immense value for that. Even and sometimes especially those games that are unlikely to ever receive a re-release (which often do make changes from the original experience), so I very much feel it isn't optimal if future generations of artist will have a hard time accessing past media due to overly agressive DRM meassures protecting corporate profits within only the first few months past release. [0] https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/microsoft-announces-4-studio-closuresincluding-arkane-austin-and-tango-gameworks-creators-of-prey-and-hi-fi-rush-respectively/ https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/microsoft-announces-...
  - Thaxll 2y ago
    Gabe newell has 0 value in that discussion, Steam is defacto the monopoly on PC, when you make billions by not doing anything and taking 30% on every game it's less of an issue. The other funny thing is that Half Life 2 came out with full blown DRM that only decrypted when the game released.
- ls612 2y ago
  I think a lot of the anti DRM crowd (who aren't just into it for piracy) believe; 1. DRM works (or more precisely, it has gotten somewhat better at working over time). 2. It will proliferate to everything that can possibly have electricity in it. 3. In the long run this will lead to an authoritarian dystopia which will make modern China look nice by comparison. By 2124, you will own nothing and you will be happy, or the Neuralink Assistant chip you were given as a kid will restructure your brain to "correct" this deficiency of happiness with your situation. This is only half satire, I do truly fear this is the direction that improved information technology will move the political economy equilibrium.
- coretx 2y ago
  DRM is not going away because the extra power it provides can be monetized.- Shareholders and investors want money at all cost. Ask anyone in any creative field. Very few are rights holders. They have food on their table despite DRM and their rights being coerced from them.
righthand 2y ago
FYI - Denuvo paid for that study.

grayhatter 2y ago

I can't figure out what that article is trying to prove. "When DRM remains uncracked, we can't detect any losses due to piracy." well duh. Does it otherwise effect sales? Do any small games use it, or just large studios?

bitwize 2y ago

[flagged]

lomase 2y ago
As Gabe Newell said "piracy is a service problem" I could pirate every game I have on my Steam account. I don't do it because the added value that Steam gives me.
- m463 2y ago
  A better example would be GOG.
- bhelkey 2y ago
  > I could pirate every game I have on my Steam account. According to the CrackWatch subreddit, there were 29 games released with Denuvo in 2024. Of those, only one has been cracked and it was done via a demo bypass [1]. You can pirate many games but not, for example, Final Fantasy XVI. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/CrackWatch/comments/p9ak4n/crack_watch_games/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CrackWatch/comments/p9ak4n/crack_wa...
  - Topfi 2y ago
    Maybe I should clarify, I personally can see the value to cooperations of having protections in place during the initial sales period, when these meassures have been shown to make an impact. My comment was more pointed at the fact that of the people I personally know that are very much opposed to the use of Denuvo specifically, very few wouldn't buy a game they want because of its use, yet they still very consistently complain about the presence of Denuvo. Essentially, my point was that from where I am sitting, a large contingent of gamers complain about things without adjusting their behavior accordingly. I also feel (again, purely subjective) that the less someone complains about pre-ordering, the less likely they are to actually engage in pre-ordering. That being said, beyond the first few months, I remain convinced that overly aggressive DRM does negatively impact game preservation, which is why I like the compromise some studios started engaging in of removing certain DRM meassures a few months post release. I recently bought two racing games from my childhood on eBay as new-old-stock physical media. One of the twos aggressive and no longer maintained DRMs made my Windows VM unbootable and I cannot access the game without relying on the work of pirates in circumventing that. Also, I will point out that defending DRM as something that protects artists as you did doesn't fully track considering one of the uncracked Denuvo games in the list you linked is Hi-Fi Rush, an exceptional game and financial success that was critically acclaimed and made by talented creatives who are now out of a job [0], not because of piracy, but because of corporate mismanagement. Whether and by how much DRM can protect profits, we can discuss that for days, but I have yet to see evidence that it ever directly benefits the creatives you mention, not least because outside of corporate games studios, where ones job security doesn't appear linked to game quality or sales, in the indie scene, few if any can afford solutions like Denuvo, so the one place where developers could directly benefit from it, they can't either. Circling back to preservation, artists generally want to be able to learn from eachother and games outside the current generation can have immense value for that. Even and sometimes especially those games that are unlikely to ever receive a re-release (which often do make changes from the original experience), so I very much feel it isn't optimal if future generations of artist will have a hard time accessing past media due to overly agressive DRM meassures protecting corporate profits within only the first few months past release. [0] https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/microsoft-announces-4-studio-closuresincluding-arkane-austin-and-tango-gameworks-creators-of-prey-and-hi-fi-rush-respectively/ https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/microsoft-announces-...
- Thaxll 2y ago
  Gabe newell has 0 value in that discussion, Steam is defacto the monopoly on PC, when you make billions by not doing anything and taking 30% on every game it's less of an issue. The other funny thing is that Half Life 2 came out with full blown DRM that only decrypted when the game released.
ls612 2y ago
I think a lot of the anti DRM crowd (who aren't just into it for piracy) believe; 1. DRM works (or more precisely, it has gotten somewhat better at working over time). 2. It will proliferate to everything that can possibly have electricity in it. 3. In the long run this will lead to an authoritarian dystopia which will make modern China look nice by comparison. By 2124, you will own nothing and you will be happy, or the Neuralink Assistant chip you were given as a kid will restructure your brain to "correct" this deficiency of happiness with your situation. This is only half satire, I do truly fear this is the direction that improved information technology will move the political economy equilibrium.
coretx 2y ago
DRM is not going away because the extra power it provides can be monetized.- Shareholders and investors want money at all cost. Ask anyone in any creative field. Very few are rights holders. They have food on their table despite DRM and their rights being coerced from them.

righthand 2y ago

FYI - Denuvo paid for that study.