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Oddly was just reading something yesterday and it mentioned that in the UK there were years during the war where we had double DST for energy saving reasons. (

Oddly was just reading something yesterday and it mentioned that in the UK there were years during the war where we had double DST for energy saving reasons. (although we went between 1 hour and 2 hours, so it was only really a change compared to the norm) https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-extreme-daylight-savings-time-of-world-war-ii https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-extreme-daylight-s...

IshKebab 2y ago
I don't really understand how that would save energy. Did people work 7am-3pm days or something?
- hnbad 2y ago
  The idea behind DST is that it shifts working hours into daylight hours during the darker months. This would theoretically cut down on energy use for lighting during those hours. Of course offices, factories and even schools still use artificial lighting even during daylight hours. And now the energy use of artificial lighting is much lower than back when everything used filament.
  - shultays 2y ago
    Even ignoring the energy saving part, it sucks waking up and leaving for work or school while it is still dark. A while ago Turkey switched to a different timezone and stopped doing DST for reasons and now everyone was waking up one hour early in winters. Considering how bad traffic is in larger cities that meant a lot of people will be waking up and going to work or school while it is still dark.
    - hnbad 2y ago
      EEST (DST) is UTC+3, EET (without DST) is UTC+2. What Turkey did was abolish the DST transition but stay in permanent DST time or "summer time", which they now call TRT (which is identical to EEST). There was a survey in parts of the EU a few years ago about abolishing DST that came out largely in favor of abolishing it. In Germany one major source of debate around the issue was that the survey referred to the timezones as "winter time" and "summer time" and predictably more people said they would prefer permanent "summer time". An equivalent survey referring to the timezones as "standard time" and "daylight savings time" likely would have had the opposite result. I could imagine that Turkey picked EEST instead of EET for similar reasons. Having had a job for six months over the winter where I spent the majority of the 8 hour work day underground, which at times meant I'd go for days without seeing proper sunlight, I agree that this is just miserable.
  - euroderf 2y ago
    I thought the main idea behind it is (or used to be) that kids can go to and return from school in daylight.
    - hnbad 2y ago
      No, the main idea was to reduce coal consumption to help with the war effort during World War I (and later World War II): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time#History
      - euroderf 2y ago
        In Europe, in wartime. OK, good to know.
- f1shy 2y ago
  It doesn't! That is why some countries want to leave one time for the whole year. When lots of power were used by lighting, it must have saved something...
- jdietrich 2y ago
  Yesterday in the UK, sunrise was about 7am and sunset was about 4:40pm. Electricity demand peaked at about 5:30pm, in the overlap between workplaces closing for the evening and people returning home and turning everything on. There's a straightforward case for either staying on BST (UTC+1) throughout the year, or (as was the case during WWII) using UTC+2 during summer and UTC+1 during winter, effectively bringing the UK in line with CET/CEST. The key factor in the war was the blackout - street lighting was turned off for the duration and vehicle headlights were mostly covered over, to avoid providing easy targets for night bombing raids. This obviously hugely increased the hazards posed by the early sunsets under GMT. https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/uk https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/uk https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mznrv3jvmo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mznrv3jvmo
extraduder_ire 2y ago
I thing, more helpfully, that would better sync up UK time with time on much of the continent. Quite useful if you're doing a lot of things internationally.

IshKebab 2y ago

I don't really understand how that would save energy. Did people work 7am-3pm days or something?

hnbad 2y ago
The idea behind DST is that it shifts working hours into daylight hours during the darker months. This would theoretically cut down on energy use for lighting during those hours. Of course offices, factories and even schools still use artificial lighting even during daylight hours. And now the energy use of artificial lighting is much lower than back when everything used filament.
- shultays 2y ago
  Even ignoring the energy saving part, it sucks waking up and leaving for work or school while it is still dark. A while ago Turkey switched to a different timezone and stopped doing DST for reasons and now everyone was waking up one hour early in winters. Considering how bad traffic is in larger cities that meant a lot of people will be waking up and going to work or school while it is still dark.
  - hnbad 2y ago
    EEST (DST) is UTC+3, EET (without DST) is UTC+2. What Turkey did was abolish the DST transition but stay in permanent DST time or "summer time", which they now call TRT (which is identical to EEST). There was a survey in parts of the EU a few years ago about abolishing DST that came out largely in favor of abolishing it. In Germany one major source of debate around the issue was that the survey referred to the timezones as "winter time" and "summer time" and predictably more people said they would prefer permanent "summer time". An equivalent survey referring to the timezones as "standard time" and "daylight savings time" likely would have had the opposite result. I could imagine that Turkey picked EEST instead of EET for similar reasons. Having had a job for six months over the winter where I spent the majority of the 8 hour work day underground, which at times meant I'd go for days without seeing proper sunlight, I agree that this is just miserable.
- euroderf 2y ago
  I thought the main idea behind it is (or used to be) that kids can go to and return from school in daylight.
  - hnbad 2y ago
    No, the main idea was to reduce coal consumption to help with the war effort during World War I (and later World War II): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time#History
    - euroderf 2y ago
      In Europe, in wartime. OK, good to know.
f1shy 2y ago
It doesn't! That is why some countries want to leave one time for the whole year. When lots of power were used by lighting, it must have saved something...
jdietrich 2y ago
Yesterday in the UK, sunrise was about 7am and sunset was about 4:40pm. Electricity demand peaked at about 5:30pm, in the overlap between workplaces closing for the evening and people returning home and turning everything on. There's a straightforward case for either staying on BST (UTC+1) throughout the year, or (as was the case during WWII) using UTC+2 during summer and UTC+1 during winter, effectively bringing the UK in line with CET/CEST. The key factor in the war was the blackout - street lighting was turned off for the duration and vehicle headlights were mostly covered over, to avoid providing easy targets for night bombing raids. This obviously hugely increased the hazards posed by the early sunsets under GMT. https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/uk https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/uk https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mznrv3jvmo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mznrv3jvmo

extraduder_ire 2y ago

I thing, more helpfully, that would better sync up UK time with time on much of the continent. Quite useful if you're doing a lot of things internationally.