6 ms·

There's still good deals in mini PC land. Yes, the M4 is faster but there's loads of mini PCs with decent CPUs, 32GB RAM and a 1TB of SSD storage for under $600

There's still good deals in mini PC land. Yes, the M4 is faster but there's loads of mini PCs with decent CPUs, 32GB RAM and a 1TB of SSD storage for under $600. I think for a lot of people for basic usage they'll get more value out of the larger and upgradable SSDs than the faster CPU. https://www.amazon.com/BOSGAME-5700U-Displays-Computers-Emulator/dp/B0CNPD2V3G https://www.amazon.com/BOSGAME-5700U-Displays-Computers-Emul... https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-SER5-Desktop-Computer-Graphics/dp/B0BYJKD2BX https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-SER5-Desktop-Computer-Graphic...

supportengineer 2y ago
But you have to run Windows, which is a deal breaker for most people.
- coconut08 2y ago
  seeing as how windows overwhelmingly owns the desktop market i would suggest it is in fact not a deal breaker for most people.
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  Why would you need to run Windows? Linux should work mini computers just fine.
  - cultofmetatron 2y ago
    I have a minisforum minipc. first thing I did was wipe windows and put popos on it. super happy with it. That said, getting anyone who isn't used to linux to usd anything other than windows as easy as pulling your teeth. People go towards whats familiar; Even when what's familiar is objectively trash that spies on you.
    - matheusmoreira 2y ago
      I don't try to get others to use Linux anymore. "Anyone who isn't used to Linux" can keep doing whatever it is they're already doing. So long as we can use it, I'm happy. I care about Linux usage only as far as it makes it harder for companies to ignore or block us.
- nervousvarun 2y ago
  Just looked and Windows is running 73% of desktops/laptops. Can you provide a source showing "most people" find Windows a deal breaker? https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/#daily-20240921-20241020 https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide...
- NBJack 2y ago
  Says who? Install your favorite flavor of Linux then. Beelink devices have a good reputation for being quite happy with a new OS. It's more compatible that the latest Apple devices, that's for certain.
- Thomashuet 2y ago
  You don't have to, you can run your favorite flavor of Linux. Unlike with the Mac Mini which can only run macOS.
  - pa7ch 2y ago
    Asahi Linux has changed that equation for M1/M2 mac minis. I'm sure M4 will be supported soon.
  - samatman 2y ago
    Apple has never put any technical or legal obstacles in the way of installing other operating systems on Mac hardware. Nor do they assist in any way, it's consistent benign neglect. The old Intel machines made excellent Linux boxes, excepting the TouchBar era because the TouchBar sucked (it was possible to install Linux, it would display the fake function keys, they worked, but not a good experience). I've converted two non-TouchBar Mac laptops into Linux machines, with zero complaints, one of them is in current use (not the laptop I'm typing on this instant however). Now there's Asahi, which as a sibling comment points out, will surely be supported for M4 eventually. This is a great time to buy the M2 Minis and put Linux on them, if that's what you're into. Or you can wait around for the M4 port, whatever suits your needs.
    - seec 2y ago
      Yet they made BootCamp. Do you see how foolish you look trying to defend nonsense? Apple try to avoid being too heavy handed in the lockdown because they know the outrage it would cause from their legacy customers. Boil the frog slowly. But they most definitely are trying to make the Mac more like an iPhone and they would rather not you install any other OS on it. The bootloader not being completely locked is more for legacy reasons and multi-macOS support (dev/debug) but if you have any problem with it, you will need (surprise-surprise), another Mac for a DFU restore, just like an iPhone.
Tempest1981 2y ago
BOSGAME and Beelink... who makes the motherboards? Nice size. The Beelink has better reviews. Any name brands?
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  They're OEM's. They're becoming name brands if you're the kind of person that follows micro PCs.
- magnio 2y ago
  Beelink is well-known in the mini PC market.
srid 2y ago
Which mini PC is recommended for those looking to run Linux (as a server, not desktop) on them?
- asciimov 2y ago
  Go look into the N100 mini pcs like: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BYJ9BC15 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BYJ9BC15 It's a nice little low wattage machine for running some docker containers.
  - alargemoose 2y ago
    I would second this! The N100 is super efficient., and can often be found for around $150. I can also recommend looking at used intel “NUC” mini PCs if you’re budget conscience. I have a couple of 5th gen i5 NUCs i got for $60 that that run multiple VMs and LXC containers as part of a Proxmox cluster.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    I use one of these for home assistant, it’s perfect. Ryzen one I got 2 years ago for my dad outperforms my M1 pro.
  - fennecbutt 2y ago
    Another valid option is a synology nas, not only can you build the storage you probably want (I have 12TB 1 redundancy with one slot spare, read backed by ssd) but can also run containers on em as well.
- nextos 2y ago
  Minix if your budget is $200-400. Cirrus7 if your budget is $500-1000. There are many other manufacturers. I am biased towards fanless builds, like those two. NUCs are also a great option, especially if you replace the case with a fanless Akasa one.
  - Wytwwww 2y ago
    > Cirrus7 It starts €599,00 for 2(!) core Celeron. Seems absurd when you can get a Mini for an extra €100 (you can run Linux/Windows in a VM and still get a magnitude or few better perf). Or even an used old NUC or something, you'd need to go back very far to get a crappier CPU... So the actual starting price seems to be €900-1000 (i.e. if you want an i5..) The Celeron G6900 has a 46W TDP and seems to be around ~20% (multicore) slower than the <10W N100. Seems absurd that they are pushing garbage like that at such prices (even if its the base config)
gymbeaux 2y ago
I bought one of these once. The specs on paper look good, but the CPUs are weak. They’re like those U series Intel CPUs where you could get say an i7-7700U, with 4 physical cores and 8 total threads, but at 15W TDP you were never really going to benefit from the 4 cores and 8 threads.
- TheNewsIsHere 2y ago
  I do love those particular boxes for certain workloads. I have a few Lenovo ThinkCenter small form factor boxes in my office. They’ve replaced all my Rapsberry Pis. Unlike the Pi, I was able to purchase these!
  - gymbeaux 2y ago
    Yeah the Pi is way too expensive. NUCs are a better deal (and roughly the same price), and x86 is obviously going to smoke ARM in certain workloads (e.g. running a VPN server that has to encrypt/decrypt all traffic). The concept of the Raspberry Pi is great, but the price point was never where it needed to be. Even when you could get one for around MSRP, doing anything with it was so much added cost. Yeah $35 for a little computer is great, but you needed a power supply, case, microSD card, and whatever hats (the hats have always been overpriced IMO).
celestialcheese 2y ago
From my experience, TCO on most apple products ends up being roughly the same when you factor in resale value. You'll be able to sell your M4 mac mini in 5 years for $150 for an instant-cash offer from backmarket or any other reseller, while you'd be lucky to get $30 for the equivalent Beelink or BOSGAME after 6 months on ebay.
- mkagenius 2y ago
  Is there a black market for old macbooks/minis? My macbook pro 15 inch, mid 2017 is valued at $195 by apple trade in. Bought for 2k iirc.
  - graeme 2y ago
    https://www.ebay.ca/b/2017-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-4-Inch-Laptops/111422/bn_108861823 https://www.ebay.ca/b/2017-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-4-Inch-Lapto...
  - singhrac 2y ago
    No need for a black market, there's plenty of public ones (Backmarket, eBay, etc.). That being said $200 seems not terrible given the step change in performance since then (I own a 2019 MBP and think we were very unlucky with our purchase timing). Backmarket seems to sell yours for ~$350-500, so maybe you'll get a little bit more trade-in for it. I owned a 2014 MBP (~$1200?) for a long time and as late as 2019 it was resellable for $500.
  - sylens 2y ago
    It’s a casaulty of the Apple Silicon transition. The Intel Mac’s are not worth much
  - gwervc 2y ago
    There's a legal second hand market where prices are obviously way higher than whatever Apple is offering for trade in.
- diffeomorphism 2y ago
  So wait 6 months and buy the equivalent beelink for $30 instead of wasting $600 on the mac?
paulcole 2y ago
> I think for a lot of people for basic usage they'll get more value out of the larger and upgradable SSDs than the faster CPU Why exactly? What are a "lot of people" storing on their computers these days? Photos are in the cloud or on our phones. Videos and music are streaming. Documents take up no space. Programs are in the cloud (for the most part).
heraldgeezer 2y ago
I would agree, but try and buy Dell, HP and Lenovo instead imo.
chipdart 2y ago
> Yes, the M4 is faster (...) I know a couple of iOS developers who recently switched to a M4 MacBook pro and they swear that in some frequent workloads it feels sluggish and slower than the old Intel MacBook pros. Being RAM-starved might have something to do with it though. > but there's loads of mini PCs with decent CPUs, 32GB RAM and a 1TB of SSD storage for under $600. I also add that, unlike Apple hardware, these miniPCs are built with extensibility in mind. For example, most NUCs from the likes of minisforum and Beelink ship with a single SSD but support multiple SSDs, with their cases also having room for SATA drives. They even go as far as selling barebones versions of their NUCs, where customers can then pick and choose which RAM and SSDs to add.
- renaudg 2y ago
  > I know a couple of iOS developers who recently switched to a M4 MacBook pro The M4 Macbook Pro will be released next week, what did you mean instead ? > they swear that in some frequent workloads it feels sluggish and slower than the old Intel MacBook pros I don't think I've seen a single other piece of user feedback online that corroborates this. > I also add that, unlike Apple hardware, these miniPCs are built with extensibility in mind Mac Mini gets its extensibility through Thunderbolt.
digitaltensor 2y ago
None of them have a proper HDMI 2.1 FRL port that is needed to run a 4k 120Hz monitor. Likely because the Iris Xe / AMD equivalent does not support it, and dedicated ITX GPUs are expensive. This isn't a problem with M4.

supportengineer 2y ago

But you have to run Windows, which is a deal breaker for most people.

coconut08 2y ago
seeing as how windows overwhelmingly owns the desktop market i would suggest it is in fact not a deal breaker for most people.
matheusmoreira 2y ago
Why would you need to run Windows? Linux should work mini computers just fine.
- cultofmetatron 2y ago
  I have a minisforum minipc. first thing I did was wipe windows and put popos on it. super happy with it. That said, getting anyone who isn't used to linux to usd anything other than windows as easy as pulling your teeth. People go towards whats familiar; Even when what's familiar is objectively trash that spies on you.
  - matheusmoreira 2y ago
    I don't try to get others to use Linux anymore. "Anyone who isn't used to Linux" can keep doing whatever it is they're already doing. So long as we can use it, I'm happy. I care about Linux usage only as far as it makes it harder for companies to ignore or block us.
nervousvarun 2y ago
Just looked and Windows is running 73% of desktops/laptops. Can you provide a source showing "most people" find Windows a deal breaker? https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/#daily-20240921-20241020 https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide...
NBJack 2y ago
Says who? Install your favorite flavor of Linux then. Beelink devices have a good reputation for being quite happy with a new OS. It's more compatible that the latest Apple devices, that's for certain.
Thomashuet 2y ago
You don't have to, you can run your favorite flavor of Linux. Unlike with the Mac Mini which can only run macOS.
- pa7ch 2y ago
  Asahi Linux has changed that equation for M1/M2 mac minis. I'm sure M4 will be supported soon.
- samatman 2y ago
  Apple has never put any technical or legal obstacles in the way of installing other operating systems on Mac hardware. Nor do they assist in any way, it's consistent benign neglect. The old Intel machines made excellent Linux boxes, excepting the TouchBar era because the TouchBar sucked (it was possible to install Linux, it would display the fake function keys, they worked, but not a good experience). I've converted two non-TouchBar Mac laptops into Linux machines, with zero complaints, one of them is in current use (not the laptop I'm typing on this instant however). Now there's Asahi, which as a sibling comment points out, will surely be supported for M4 eventually. This is a great time to buy the M2 Minis and put Linux on them, if that's what you're into. Or you can wait around for the M4 port, whatever suits your needs.
  - seec 2y ago
    Yet they made BootCamp. Do you see how foolish you look trying to defend nonsense? Apple try to avoid being too heavy handed in the lockdown because they know the outrage it would cause from their legacy customers. Boil the frog slowly. But they most definitely are trying to make the Mac more like an iPhone and they would rather not you install any other OS on it. The bootloader not being completely locked is more for legacy reasons and multi-macOS support (dev/debug) but if you have any problem with it, you will need (surprise-surprise), another Mac for a DFU restore, just like an iPhone.

Tempest1981 2y ago

BOSGAME and Beelink... who makes the motherboards? Nice size. The Beelink has better reviews. Any name brands?

throwaway48476 2y ago
They're OEM's. They're becoming name brands if you're the kind of person that follows micro PCs.
magnio 2y ago
Beelink is well-known in the mini PC market.

srid 2y ago

Which mini PC is recommended for those looking to run Linux (as a server, not desktop) on them?

asciimov 2y ago
Go look into the N100 mini pcs like: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BYJ9BC15 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BYJ9BC15 It's a nice little low wattage machine for running some docker containers.
- alargemoose 2y ago
  I would second this! The N100 is super efficient., and can often be found for around $150. I can also recommend looking at used intel “NUC” mini PCs if you’re budget conscience. I have a couple of 5th gen i5 NUCs i got for $60 that that run multiple VMs and LXC containers as part of a Proxmox cluster.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  I use one of these for home assistant, it’s perfect. Ryzen one I got 2 years ago for my dad outperforms my M1 pro.
- fennecbutt 2y ago
  Another valid option is a synology nas, not only can you build the storage you probably want (I have 12TB 1 redundancy with one slot spare, read backed by ssd) but can also run containers on em as well.
nextos 2y ago
Minix if your budget is $200-400. Cirrus7 if your budget is $500-1000. There are many other manufacturers. I am biased towards fanless builds, like those two. NUCs are also a great option, especially if you replace the case with a fanless Akasa one.
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  > Cirrus7 It starts €599,00 for 2(!) core Celeron. Seems absurd when you can get a Mini for an extra €100 (you can run Linux/Windows in a VM and still get a magnitude or few better perf). Or even an used old NUC or something, you'd need to go back very far to get a crappier CPU... So the actual starting price seems to be €900-1000 (i.e. if you want an i5..) The Celeron G6900 has a 46W TDP and seems to be around ~20% (multicore) slower than the <10W N100. Seems absurd that they are pushing garbage like that at such prices (even if its the base config)

gymbeaux 2y ago

I bought one of these once. The specs on paper look good, but the CPUs are weak. They’re like those U series Intel CPUs where you could get say an i7-7700U, with 4 physical cores and 8 total threads, but at 15W TDP you were never really going to benefit from the 4 cores and 8 threads.

TheNewsIsHere 2y ago
I do love those particular boxes for certain workloads. I have a few Lenovo ThinkCenter small form factor boxes in my office. They’ve replaced all my Rapsberry Pis. Unlike the Pi, I was able to purchase these!
- gymbeaux 2y ago
  Yeah the Pi is way too expensive. NUCs are a better deal (and roughly the same price), and x86 is obviously going to smoke ARM in certain workloads (e.g. running a VPN server that has to encrypt/decrypt all traffic). The concept of the Raspberry Pi is great, but the price point was never where it needed to be. Even when you could get one for around MSRP, doing anything with it was so much added cost. Yeah $35 for a little computer is great, but you needed a power supply, case, microSD card, and whatever hats (the hats have always been overpriced IMO).

celestialcheese 2y ago

From my experience, TCO on most apple products ends up being roughly the same when you factor in resale value. You'll be able to sell your M4 mac mini in 5 years for $150 for an instant-cash offer from backmarket or any other reseller, while you'd be lucky to get $30 for the equivalent Beelink or BOSGAME after 6 months on ebay.

mkagenius 2y ago
Is there a black market for old macbooks/minis? My macbook pro 15 inch, mid 2017 is valued at $195 by apple trade in. Bought for 2k iirc.
- graeme 2y ago
  https://www.ebay.ca/b/2017-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-4-Inch-Laptops/111422/bn_108861823 https://www.ebay.ca/b/2017-Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-4-Inch-Lapto...
- singhrac 2y ago
  No need for a black market, there's plenty of public ones (Backmarket, eBay, etc.). That being said $200 seems not terrible given the step change in performance since then (I own a 2019 MBP and think we were very unlucky with our purchase timing). Backmarket seems to sell yours for ~$350-500, so maybe you'll get a little bit more trade-in for it. I owned a 2014 MBP (~$1200?) for a long time and as late as 2019 it was resellable for $500.
- sylens 2y ago
  It’s a casaulty of the Apple Silicon transition. The Intel Mac’s are not worth much
- gwervc 2y ago
  There's a legal second hand market where prices are obviously way higher than whatever Apple is offering for trade in.
diffeomorphism 2y ago
So wait 6 months and buy the equivalent beelink for $30 instead of wasting $600 on the mac?

paulcole 2y ago

> I think for a lot of people for basic usage they'll get more value out of the larger and upgradable SSDs than the faster CPU Why exactly? What are a "lot of people" storing on their computers these days? Photos are in the cloud or on our phones. Videos and music are streaming. Documents take up no space. Programs are in the cloud (for the most part).

heraldgeezer 2y ago

I would agree, but try and buy Dell, HP and Lenovo instead imo.

chipdart 2y ago

> Yes, the M4 is faster (...) I know a couple of iOS developers who recently switched to a M4 MacBook pro and they swear that in some frequent workloads it feels sluggish and slower than the old Intel MacBook pros. Being RAM-starved might have something to do with it though. > but there's loads of mini PCs with decent CPUs, 32GB RAM and a 1TB of SSD storage for under $600. I also add that, unlike Apple hardware, these miniPCs are built with extensibility in mind. For example, most NUCs from the likes of minisforum and Beelink ship with a single SSD but support multiple SSDs, with their cases also having room for SATA drives. They even go as far as selling barebones versions of their NUCs, where customers can then pick and choose which RAM and SSDs to add.

renaudg 2y ago
> I know a couple of iOS developers who recently switched to a M4 MacBook pro The M4 Macbook Pro will be released next week, what did you mean instead ? > they swear that in some frequent workloads it feels sluggish and slower than the old Intel MacBook pros I don't think I've seen a single other piece of user feedback online that corroborates this. > I also add that, unlike Apple hardware, these miniPCs are built with extensibility in mind Mac Mini gets its extensibility through Thunderbolt.

digitaltensor 2y ago

None of them have a proper HDMI 2.1 FRL port that is needed to run a 4k 120Hz monitor. Likely because the Iris Xe / AMD equivalent does not support it, and dedicated ITX GPUs are expensive. This isn't a problem with M4.