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With educational pricing this thing starts as $500, and at 16GB of RAM (finally) I think this easily beats any sort of desktop PC you can buy at that price (let

With educational pricing this thing starts as $500, and at 16GB of RAM (finally) I think this easily beats any sort of desktop PC you can buy at that price (let's exclude custom builds, they're not the same market). I think this just became the go-to recommendation I'll give to anybody wanting an entry-level desktop computer of any kind. In fact I might buy one for my parents right now to replace the old mac mini they have. I really can't think of any reasonable competition for it at that price.

zackymacky 2y ago
Help me understand the $500 starting price? I see $1250 starting price on pre-orders from the education store.
- plushpuffin 2y ago
  That’s for the model with the M4 Pro chip. Mac mini with M4 starts at $599 (U.S.) and $499 (U.S.) for education. Mac mini with M4 Pro starts at $1,399 (U.S.) and $1,299 (U.S.) for education.
  - zackymacky 2y ago
    My mistake! I was looking at M4 iMac pricing. So you still need a monitor on top of the $500 price, but that is a good entry point.
- xiasongh 2y ago
  From the article > Mac mini with M4 starts at $599 (U.S.) and $499 (U.S.) for education. Additional technical specifications are available at apple.com/mac-mini.
  - zackymacky 2y ago
    It is true, I was on the Apple edu page and looking at the wrong computer. Thanks for the correction!
tharos47 2y ago
IMHO it's not as NUC style mini PCs with x86-64 CPUs from AMD and intel are really cheap and the 256Gb storage is way too small making the "real" price $200 higher for any sort of moderate usage.
HumblyTossed 2y ago
Wish I still had a .edu email address...
- ikety 2y ago
  You don't need one. There's just a checkbox asking you to pinky promise that you actually are a student
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?
    - _ea1k 2y ago
      Noone ever lies or says sarcastic things on the internet.
huijzer 2y ago
Do note only 256 GB of storage. Should be enough for most people, but at the same time can become very annoying once it gets full.
- setgree 2y ago
  We can reasonably expect 1) external storage to become faster and cheaper every year (subject to constraints around interface) 2) more and more digital assets to be cloud-native, e.g. photos stored exclusively on icloud and not on your computer So I'm less worried about storage than some. If Asahi Linux achieves Proton-like compatibility with games [0], then we're getting closer to the perfect general purpose game console. [0] https://asahilinux.org/2024/10/aaa-gaming-on-asahi-linux/ https://asahilinux.org/2024/10/aaa-gaming-on-asahi-linux/
  - kridsdale3 2y ago
    With Thunderbolt 5, once external SSD enclosures supporting it exist, there should be zero performance penalty for external vs internal storage speed, finally. Then you can built a 1PB array, if you want.
    - canucker2016 2y ago
      M4-based mac mini's (256GB storage) have Thunderbolt 4. If you need/require Thunderbolt 5, you'll have to step up from $599 to $1399+ for the M4 Pro-based mac mini's.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Cloud storage is still painfully slow compared to local.
    - setgree 2y ago
      We can expect different storage solutions by product depending on how fast things need to be. It doesn’t need to be lightning quick to load a frame in a movie, for instance, which is why streaming dominates there.
bufferoverflow 2y ago
[flagged]
- zemvpferreira 2y ago
  It's not really reasonable to compare prices of a used machine with a new one though.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Why not? As long as you discount the price of the new product by the perceived value of new vs used, that’s the correct comparison to make. If a used product is the same quality and $100 cheaper, and just having something that’s new is not worth $100 to you, you should pick the used option. The goal is to get the best value per money spent.
    - thejazzman 2y ago
      mental gymnastics; used is not new. even new isn't necessarily new when it's not sold by an authorized seller because it can invalidate the warranty. new is new and has legal ramifications, you cannot compare them unless you're throwing in a trustworthy extended warranty that matches -- and pretty much nothing matches apple in that regard
      - echoangle 2y ago
        Well you have to consider the differences but you can absolutely compare them when you want to decide what you buy.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- thelittleone 2y ago
  That ebay link is a used item.
- reaperducer 2y ago
timeon 2y ago
> With educational pricing I think this easily beats any sort of desktop > go-to recommendation I'll give to anybody wanting an entry-level desktop Can anybody get it with educational pricing?
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  If you enroll in a college.
  - rootusrootus 2y ago
    Or if you are parent to a student, including when the student is homeschooled. Or if you are a teacher.
- ikety 2y ago
  yes, there's no verification system. You simply just state that you are a student
  - timeon 2y ago
    I had no idea. I'm not going to abuse it but still interesting.
goosedragons 2y ago
There's still good deals in mini PC land. Yes, the M4 is faster but there's loads of mini PCs with decent CPUs, 32GB RAM and a 1TB of SSD storage for under $600. I think for a lot of people for basic usage they'll get more value out of the larger and upgradable SSDs than the faster CPU. https://www.amazon.com/BOSGAME-5700U-Displays-Computers-Emulator/dp/B0CNPD2V3G https://www.amazon.com/BOSGAME-5700U-Displays-Computers-Emul... https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-SER5-Desktop-Computer-Graphics/dp/B0BYJKD2BX https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-SER5-Desktop-Computer-Graphic...
- supportengineer 2y ago
  But you have to run Windows, which is a deal breaker for most people.
  - coconut08 2y ago
    seeing as how windows overwhelmingly owns the desktop market i would suggest it is in fact not a deal breaker for most people.
  - matheusmoreira 2y ago
    Why would you need to run Windows? Linux should work mini computers just fine.
    - cultofmetatron 2y ago
      I have a minisforum minipc. first thing I did was wipe windows and put popos on it. super happy with it. That said, getting anyone who isn't used to linux to usd anything other than windows as easy as pulling your teeth. People go towards whats familiar; Even when what's familiar is objectively trash that spies on you.
      - matheusmoreira 2y ago
        I don't try to get others to use Linux anymore. "Anyone who isn't used to Linux" can keep doing whatever it is they're already doing. So long as we can use it, I'm happy. I care about Linux usage only as far as it makes it harder for companies to ignore or block us.
sangnoir 2y ago
> I think this easily beats any sort of desktop PC you can buy at that price (let's exclude custom builds, they're not the same market). This is squarely in the NUC/SFF/1l-pc territory, and there is plenty of competition here from Beelink and Minisforum. I just found the Beelink SER7 going for $509, and it has an 8-core/16-thread Ryzen 7 CPU, 32GB DDR4. The 8845 in the beelink is very competitive[1] with M4 (beaten, but not "easily"), and also supports memory upgrades of up to 256GB. 1. https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m4-vs-amd-ryzen-7-8845hs https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m4-vs-amd-ryzen-...
- tmikaeld 2y ago
  When you factor in memory bandwidth (80GB/s for DDR4) - that's not even close to the M4 (120GB/s base model).
  - sangnoir 2y ago
    Which regular desktop tasks are kneecapped by 80GBps memory bandwidth?
    - marci 2y ago
      You really start taking into account bandwidth when you need 64GB or more (which is rarelly). If it's audio/video, spawning VMs, it doesn't matter much. If it's for generative software, it might become an issue.
    - mysteria 2y ago
      If local LLMs become mainstream then you want as much memory bandwidth as possible. For regular home and office use two channels of DDR4 is more than enough.
    - SSLy 2y ago
      Unironically, small LLMs
    - sliken 2y ago
      LLMs and fast GPUs without having a giant PC spring to mind.
architect64 2y ago
One issue to watch out for: Sub-4K res monitors look surprisingly bad on newer versions of macOS with Apple Silicon Macs. And no, it's not simply a matter of non-Retina obviously not looking as nice as Retina monitors - something like a 1440p monitor will look much worse on macOS than it would on Windows or Linux. This is partly caused by a lack of subpixel rendering for text on macOS, but it doesn't affect just text, with app icon graphics and such seemingly optimized for High-DPI resolutions only and thus looking awful too. You commonly see people using 3rd party apps such as BetterDisplay to partially work around this problem by tricking the system to treat 1440p displays as 5K displays and then downscale, but it doesn't solve this completely. So yes, the price for the machine is fantastic, but you may want to budget for a basic 4K display as well.
- stalfosknight 2y ago
  Non-Apple displays have awful PPI, even the allegedly high-DPI ones.
  - tasty_freeze 2y ago
    How does that address the point the person you are replying to make: > something like a 1440p monitor will look much worse on macOS than it would on Windows or Linux.
- anemoknee 2y ago
  Is this with newer Apple Silicon Macs? My 2020 M1 Mac Mini looks unremarkably normal on my 1440p display. I'm also going between that and my 14" M1 Pro Macbook Pro, which of course looks beautiful but doesn't really make the 1440p on the Mini 'bad'. Edit: Adding that both of these machines are now running macOS 15.1 at this time.
  - gymbeaux 2y ago
    In my experience, you can’t do any sort of scaling with sub-4K displays. This is “since M1”. Intel Macs, even on the latest macOS, can do scaling eg 1.5x at say 1440p, which last time I bothered with an Intel Mac required a workaround via Terminal to re-enable. But that workaround is “patched” on Apple Silicon and won’t work. So yes if you have an Apple Silicon Mac plugged into a 1440p display, it will look bad with any sort of “scaling”- because scaling is disabled on macOS for sub-4K displays. What you’re actually doing when you’re “scaling” on say a 1440p display is running that display at 1920x1080 resolution- hence it looks like ass. Back before Apple Silicon, running that 1440p display at “1920x1080” was actually just scaling the UI elements up to appear as though you had a 1920x1080 display- since it was still utilizing the full …x1440 pixels of the display, “1920x1080” looked nicer than it would now. So brass tacks it’s just about how macOS/OS X would obfuscate the true display resolution in the System Preferences -> Displays menu. Now with Apple Silicon Macs, “1920x1080” means “2x scaling” for 4K monitors and literally “we’ll run this higher-res monitor at literally 1920x1080” for any display under 4K resolution.
ChumpGPT 2y ago
>I think this just became the go-to recommendation I'll give to anybody wanting an entry-level desktop computer of any kind. Perhaps you should check out some Beelink and GMKTec Mini PC Systems.
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  Then you have to factor in supporting those systems, because you will be the one they call. This is one of the major upsides to family & friends buying Macs.
throwaway48476 2y ago
It's only a good deal so long as you don't pay for any of the extortionate upgrades.
anoncow 2y ago
Imagine the used market. An amazing computer for just 300 usd is possible. Apple is doing amazing.
kwanbix 2y ago
Sure, if they are used to macOS, this is a great option. But I wouldn't recommend it to people who are not used to it. I tried to recommend Linux, with XFCE setup as basically windows, and people complain. Same for ChromeOS.
brundolf 2y ago
Genuine question: why do your parents want a desktop? These days the only reasons I see to get a desktop are 1. You need some combination of power/thermals or expandability 2. Kiosks, public computers, etc 3. Cost? Maybe? For pretty much any regular person in my life who's open to a mac, I'd point them towards a MacBook Air
- thesmok 2y ago
  People want a desktop because they 1. can use a smartphone for all mobile tasks 2. see better on a large screen 3. are more comfortable with a mouse than a trackpad 4. don't have to worry about spilling tea on a laptop or dropping it on the floor. A keyboard is cheap to replace if that happens.
- syndicatedjelly 2y ago
  I’m a mid 30s developer and I use a mac mini for all my hobby development. I’m planning to get a m4 mini to replace my current m1 mini. I like hooking up my own monitor and peripherals - I don’t like working hunched over a small screen and crunched keyboard. Plus, a m4 mac mini with 32GB RAM is only $999 - the most closely spec’d Macbook Air (on an M3, with 24GB RAM) is $1299. and then the m4 Macbook Pro with 32 GB RAM is $1999. So your last point about cost - why should I throw away an extra $1000 for no reason?
heraldgeezer 2y ago
I thought the same, sadly regional pricing… For half that price I can get a used Dell/HP/Lenovo mico/tiny PC with a full i7 CPU, 16GB RAM, 256SSD. Still good to see. Great for an office PC or HTPC.
userbinator 2y ago
It's a proprietary locked-down "computer", closer to an iPhone or iPad or other smartphone than a standard PC.
- kalleboo 2y ago
  If you can install a third-party OS without exploiting a security bug, then it's not "locked-down".
  - Duxon 2y ago
    It is if the hardware is proprietary and drivers nonexistent.
chipdart 2y ago
> I think this easily beats any sort of desktop PC you can buy at that price Not really. Do a quick googling for cheap miniPCs from brands such as minisforum or Beelink. Years ago they were selling Ryzen5 and Intel i5 with 16BG of RAM for around $300. No "educational software" bullshit either, just straight from Amazon to anyone who bothered to click on a button.

zackymacky 2y ago

Help me understand the $500 starting price? I see $1250 starting price on pre-orders from the education store.

plushpuffin 2y ago
That’s for the model with the M4 Pro chip. Mac mini with M4 starts at $599 (U.S.) and $499 (U.S.) for education. Mac mini with M4 Pro starts at $1,399 (U.S.) and $1,299 (U.S.) for education.
- zackymacky 2y ago
  My mistake! I was looking at M4 iMac pricing. So you still need a monitor on top of the $500 price, but that is a good entry point.
xiasongh 2y ago
From the article > Mac mini with M4 starts at $599 (U.S.) and $499 (U.S.) for education. Additional technical specifications are available at apple.com/mac-mini.
- zackymacky 2y ago
  It is true, I was on the Apple edu page and looking at the wrong computer. Thanks for the correction!

tharos47 2y ago

IMHO it's not as NUC style mini PCs with x86-64 CPUs from AMD and intel are really cheap and the 256Gb storage is way too small making the "real" price $200 higher for any sort of moderate usage.

HumblyTossed 2y ago

Wish I still had a .edu email address...

ikety 2y ago
You don't need one. There's just a checkbox asking you to pinky promise that you actually are a student
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?
  - _ea1k 2y ago
    Noone ever lies or says sarcastic things on the internet.

huijzer 2y ago

Do note only 256 GB of storage. Should be enough for most people, but at the same time can become very annoying once it gets full.

setgree 2y ago
We can reasonably expect 1) external storage to become faster and cheaper every year (subject to constraints around interface) 2) more and more digital assets to be cloud-native, e.g. photos stored exclusively on icloud and not on your computer So I'm less worried about storage than some. If Asahi Linux achieves Proton-like compatibility with games [0], then we're getting closer to the perfect general purpose game console. [0] https://asahilinux.org/2024/10/aaa-gaming-on-asahi-linux/ https://asahilinux.org/2024/10/aaa-gaming-on-asahi-linux/
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  With Thunderbolt 5, once external SSD enclosures supporting it exist, there should be zero performance penalty for external vs internal storage speed, finally. Then you can built a 1PB array, if you want.
  - canucker2016 2y ago
    M4-based mac mini's (256GB storage) have Thunderbolt 4. If you need/require Thunderbolt 5, you'll have to step up from $599 to $1399+ for the M4 Pro-based mac mini's.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Cloud storage is still painfully slow compared to local.
  - setgree 2y ago
    We can expect different storage solutions by product depending on how fast things need to be. It doesn’t need to be lightning quick to load a frame in a movie, for instance, which is why streaming dominates there.

bufferoverflow 2y ago

[flagged]

zemvpferreira 2y ago
It's not really reasonable to compare prices of a used machine with a new one though.
- echoangle 2y ago
  Why not? As long as you discount the price of the new product by the perceived value of new vs used, that’s the correct comparison to make. If a used product is the same quality and $100 cheaper, and just having something that’s new is not worth $100 to you, you should pick the used option. The goal is to get the best value per money spent.
  - thejazzman 2y ago
    mental gymnastics; used is not new. even new isn't necessarily new when it's not sold by an authorized seller because it can invalidate the warranty. new is new and has legal ramifications, you cannot compare them unless you're throwing in a trustworthy extended warranty that matches -- and pretty much nothing matches apple in that regard
    - echoangle 2y ago
      Well you have to consider the differences but you can absolutely compare them when you want to decide what you buy.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
thelittleone 2y ago
That ebay link is a used item.
reaperducer 2y ago

timeon 2y ago

> With educational pricing I think this easily beats any sort of desktop > go-to recommendation I'll give to anybody wanting an entry-level desktop Can anybody get it with educational pricing?

kridsdale3 2y ago
If you enroll in a college.
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  Or if you are parent to a student, including when the student is homeschooled. Or if you are a teacher.
ikety 2y ago
yes, there's no verification system. You simply just state that you are a student
- timeon 2y ago
  I had no idea. I'm not going to abuse it but still interesting.

goosedragons 2y ago

There's still good deals in mini PC land. Yes, the M4 is faster but there's loads of mini PCs with decent CPUs, 32GB RAM and a 1TB of SSD storage for under $600. I think for a lot of people for basic usage they'll get more value out of the larger and upgradable SSDs than the faster CPU. https://www.amazon.com/BOSGAME-5700U-Displays-Computers-Emulator/dp/B0CNPD2V3G https://www.amazon.com/BOSGAME-5700U-Displays-Computers-Emul... https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-SER5-Desktop-Computer-Graphics/dp/B0BYJKD2BX https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-SER5-Desktop-Computer-Graphic...

supportengineer 2y ago
But you have to run Windows, which is a deal breaker for most people.
- coconut08 2y ago
  seeing as how windows overwhelmingly owns the desktop market i would suggest it is in fact not a deal breaker for most people.
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  Why would you need to run Windows? Linux should work mini computers just fine.
  - cultofmetatron 2y ago
    I have a minisforum minipc. first thing I did was wipe windows and put popos on it. super happy with it. That said, getting anyone who isn't used to linux to usd anything other than windows as easy as pulling your teeth. People go towards whats familiar; Even when what's familiar is objectively trash that spies on you.
    - matheusmoreira 2y ago
      I don't try to get others to use Linux anymore. "Anyone who isn't used to Linux" can keep doing whatever it is they're already doing. So long as we can use it, I'm happy. I care about Linux usage only as far as it makes it harder for companies to ignore or block us.

sangnoir 2y ago

> I think this easily beats any sort of desktop PC you can buy at that price (let's exclude custom builds, they're not the same market). This is squarely in the NUC/SFF/1l-pc territory, and there is plenty of competition here from Beelink and Minisforum. I just found the Beelink SER7 going for $509, and it has an 8-core/16-thread Ryzen 7 CPU, 32GB DDR4. The 8845 in the beelink is very competitive[1] with M4 (beaten, but not "easily"), and also supports memory upgrades of up to 256GB. 1. https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m4-vs-amd-ryzen-7-8845hs https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m4-vs-amd-ryzen-...

tmikaeld 2y ago
When you factor in memory bandwidth (80GB/s for DDR4) - that's not even close to the M4 (120GB/s base model).
- sangnoir 2y ago
  Which regular desktop tasks are kneecapped by 80GBps memory bandwidth?
  - marci 2y ago
    You really start taking into account bandwidth when you need 64GB or more (which is rarelly). If it's audio/video, spawning VMs, it doesn't matter much. If it's for generative software, it might become an issue.
  - mysteria 2y ago
    If local LLMs become mainstream then you want as much memory bandwidth as possible. For regular home and office use two channels of DDR4 is more than enough.
  - SSLy 2y ago
    Unironically, small LLMs
  - sliken 2y ago
    LLMs and fast GPUs without having a giant PC spring to mind.

architect64 2y ago

One issue to watch out for: Sub-4K res monitors look surprisingly bad on newer versions of macOS with Apple Silicon Macs. And no, it's not simply a matter of non-Retina obviously not looking as nice as Retina monitors - something like a 1440p monitor will look much worse on macOS than it would on Windows or Linux. This is partly caused by a lack of subpixel rendering for text on macOS, but it doesn't affect just text, with app icon graphics and such seemingly optimized for High-DPI resolutions only and thus looking awful too. You commonly see people using 3rd party apps such as BetterDisplay to partially work around this problem by tricking the system to treat 1440p displays as 5K displays and then downscale, but it doesn't solve this completely. So yes, the price for the machine is fantastic, but you may want to budget for a basic 4K display as well.

stalfosknight 2y ago
Non-Apple displays have awful PPI, even the allegedly high-DPI ones.
- tasty_freeze 2y ago
  How does that address the point the person you are replying to make: > something like a 1440p monitor will look much worse on macOS than it would on Windows or Linux.
anemoknee 2y ago
Is this with newer Apple Silicon Macs? My 2020 M1 Mac Mini looks unremarkably normal on my 1440p display. I'm also going between that and my 14" M1 Pro Macbook Pro, which of course looks beautiful but doesn't really make the 1440p on the Mini 'bad'. Edit: Adding that both of these machines are now running macOS 15.1 at this time.
- gymbeaux 2y ago
  In my experience, you can’t do any sort of scaling with sub-4K displays. This is “since M1”. Intel Macs, even on the latest macOS, can do scaling eg 1.5x at say 1440p, which last time I bothered with an Intel Mac required a workaround via Terminal to re-enable. But that workaround is “patched” on Apple Silicon and won’t work. So yes if you have an Apple Silicon Mac plugged into a 1440p display, it will look bad with any sort of “scaling”- because scaling is disabled on macOS for sub-4K displays. What you’re actually doing when you’re “scaling” on say a 1440p display is running that display at 1920x1080 resolution- hence it looks like ass. Back before Apple Silicon, running that 1440p display at “1920x1080” was actually just scaling the UI elements up to appear as though you had a 1920x1080 display- since it was still utilizing the full …x1440 pixels of the display, “1920x1080” looked nicer than it would now. So brass tacks it’s just about how macOS/OS X would obfuscate the true display resolution in the System Preferences -> Displays menu. Now with Apple Silicon Macs, “1920x1080” means “2x scaling” for 4K monitors and literally “we’ll run this higher-res monitor at literally 1920x1080” for any display under 4K resolution.

ChumpGPT 2y ago

>I think this just became the go-to recommendation I'll give to anybody wanting an entry-level desktop computer of any kind. Perhaps you should check out some Beelink and GMKTec Mini PC Systems.

rootusrootus 2y ago
Then you have to factor in supporting those systems, because you will be the one they call. This is one of the major upsides to family & friends buying Macs.

throwaway48476 2y ago

It's only a good deal so long as you don't pay for any of the extortionate upgrades.

anoncow 2y ago

Imagine the used market. An amazing computer for just 300 usd is possible. Apple is doing amazing.

kwanbix 2y ago

Sure, if they are used to macOS, this is a great option. But I wouldn't recommend it to people who are not used to it. I tried to recommend Linux, with XFCE setup as basically windows, and people complain. Same for ChromeOS.

brundolf 2y ago

Genuine question: why do your parents want a desktop? These days the only reasons I see to get a desktop are 1. You need some combination of power/thermals or expandability 2. Kiosks, public computers, etc 3. Cost? Maybe? For pretty much any regular person in my life who's open to a mac, I'd point them towards a MacBook Air

thesmok 2y ago
People want a desktop because they 1. can use a smartphone for all mobile tasks 2. see better on a large screen 3. are more comfortable with a mouse than a trackpad 4. don't have to worry about spilling tea on a laptop or dropping it on the floor. A keyboard is cheap to replace if that happens.
syndicatedjelly 2y ago
I’m a mid 30s developer and I use a mac mini for all my hobby development. I’m planning to get a m4 mini to replace my current m1 mini. I like hooking up my own monitor and peripherals - I don’t like working hunched over a small screen and crunched keyboard. Plus, a m4 mac mini with 32GB RAM is only $999 - the most closely spec’d Macbook Air (on an M3, with 24GB RAM) is $1299. and then the m4 Macbook Pro with 32 GB RAM is $1999. So your last point about cost - why should I throw away an extra $1000 for no reason?

heraldgeezer 2y ago

I thought the same, sadly regional pricing… For half that price I can get a used Dell/HP/Lenovo mico/tiny PC with a full i7 CPU, 16GB RAM, 256SSD. Still good to see. Great for an office PC or HTPC.

userbinator 2y ago

It's a proprietary locked-down "computer", closer to an iPhone or iPad or other smartphone than a standard PC.

kalleboo 2y ago
If you can install a third-party OS without exploiting a security bug, then it's not "locked-down".
- Duxon 2y ago
  It is if the hardware is proprietary and drivers nonexistent.

chipdart 2y ago

> I think this easily beats any sort of desktop PC you can buy at that price Not really. Do a quick googling for cheap miniPCs from brands such as minisforum or Beelink. Years ago they were selling Ryzen5 and Intel i5 with 16BG of RAM for around $300. No "educational software" bullshit either, just straight from Amazon to anyone who bothered to click on a button.