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Love to see that it still starts at $599. My M2 Mac Mini that I got for $499 is my favorite gaming computer I've had in a long time. Runs many games like WoW,

Love to see that it still starts at $599. My M2 Mac Mini that I got for $499 is my favorite gaming computer I've had in a long time. Runs many games like WoW, Dota, League of Legends, etc great. Anything that it doesn't run due to MacOS I use GeForce Now over ethernet. And this was with 8gb unified memory, now with 16gb it'll be even better value. Very excited to see how the GPU has improved in the M4, especially the Pro model.

eamag 2y ago
Isn't steamdeck a better option for this use case?
- tom_ 2y ago
  Assuming you don't want to use it for all the various other things you can also use a Mac for - sure, maybe.
- leetharris 2y ago
  I have a Steam Deck, Asus ROG Ally, M2 Mac Mini, M1 Pro laptop, M2 Max laptop (work). All of this runs on either an LG C3 42" OLED or a 34" 1440p ultrawide. Linux GeForce Now can only do 720p or 1080p, can't remember which. Also, it's just kind of laggy in desktop mode. The Macs run so much smoother. My current "main" desktop is actually my Asus ROG Ally. I use one USB C hub that is capable of 4k120hz, and I can move it between my Mac laptops and Asus ROG Ally very seamlessly. The problem for me is Windows. Yesterday my start menu stopped loading for some reason and required a full reboot. Sometimes it refuses to go to sleep. Sometimes it refuses to come out of sleep. Sometimes a Windows update kicks off in the middle of a game and it slows everything to a crawl. Windows drives me crazy these days!
  - talldayo 2y ago
    Get rid of Windows on it! Digital Foundry put out a great video on this exact process the other day, weighing the pros and cons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwWRCrGoXV0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwWRCrGoXV0 Neither MacOS nor Windows are very good console OSes - you're really better off using Linux where anticheat isn't concerned. Even on the Ally.
    - diggan 2y ago
      > Neither MacOS nor Windows are very good console OSes They're great OSes for consumers who don't really work on their computers, and just want something that caters to the lowest common denominator. For professionals who use computers for work, Linux is really the only option that doesn't eventually get in your way. You can set it up and leave it as-is, with only security updates, and everything keeps working the same way, basically forever. I've tried to set up an experience like that on both macOS and Windows, but eventually, the company will find a way of forcing an update on your, intentionally or not.
      - philistine 2y ago
        Thank you so much for telling me that I am actually not managing my non-profit on my Mac. I was convinced I was working every day on a Mac in a business setting, but I guess I was mistaken.
      - Veen 2y ago
        What does "work on their computer" mean to you? I suspect it's not what it means to the vast majority of people.
      - 1propionyl 2y ago
        > For professionals who use computers for work, Linux is really the only option that doesn't eventually get in your way. I really hope you're not expecting anyone to take you seriously with this. On principle I get what you're saying but in practice no one who works as a professional in any field has the time (or expertise) to be worried about configuring their operating system. As a Linux evangelist who begrudgingly daily drives a Mac, this kind of attitude is what does us in. It's the cocksure "akshually Linux is best" even when it materially, experientially, just isn't. Denial is not a design ethos.
        talldayo 2y ago
        I'll take him seriously on it. MacOS and Windows are terrible for professional purposes, for a number of reasons: 1. Requires Windows Pro or Apple Developer license to unlock full featureset 2. Cannot reasonably disable targeted advertising or ad data collection from either OS 3. Neither come with package managers and do not respect third-party packaging either 4. Can be "managed" insofar as your buggy CPM software allows, often glitched by the OS itself 5. The experience is always getting worse since Apple and Microsoft share a united front of making people spend as much money on useless shit as humanly possible Now, that's not to say nobody should use these OSes - certainly people are locked into them for some purposes. But as a programmer it's genuinely hard for me to be productive on these OSes because I end up fighting them just for everyday, non-programming purposes. I think it's entirely possible that MacOS and Windows can be inherently terrible experiences while also being mandatory for certain workflows.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > Windows drives me crazy these days! At least it boots. I purchase a Surface Pro 8 a year ago or something, thinking Windows would surely work better than usual when it is Microsoft's own hardware too. But no, yesterday it got stuck in a boot loop, after a Windows update broke the audio drivers somehow. The Windows logs/reliability report can just tell me it "shut down abnormally" without any technical details what so ever. I still have to use Windows on my desktop because of Ableton, but I'll never purchase any Microsoft hardware again, and as soon as I can, I'll run Ableton on Linux like the rest of my software.
    - fennecbutt 2y ago
      Tbf I've had the same thing with macos doing stuff like randomly recreating my keychain on login and other weirdness. As a developer really I can work on Linux or Windows or macos. Long as I'm getting paid. Tools in the toolbox.
  - influx 2y ago
    What's the model of that USB C hub? Looking for one that I can switch between Windows and Mac (and maybe Linux)
    - leetharris 2y ago
      These Cable Matters ones work well, but need their firmware flashed. Luckily, it was extremely easy and worked great for me. Here's an Apple forum thread about it: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/dp-usb-c-thunderbolt-3-4-to-hdmi-2-1-4k-120hz-rgb4-4-4-10b-hdr-with-apple-silicon-m1-m2-m3-now-possible.2381664/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/dp-usb-c-thunderbolt-3-... Here's the exact model I have: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ethernet-Delivery-Charging/dp/B095821QGP#customerReviews https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ethernet-Delivery-Charg...
  - jacktheturtle 2y ago
    can you share the USB C hub? i need one of these and can't find one that makes it easy to swap between mac & gaming rig
    - leetharris 2y ago
      Posted in another comment: These Cable Matters ones work well, but need their firmware flashed. Luckily, it was extremely easy and worked great for me. Here's an Apple forum thread about it: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/dp-usb-c-thunderbolt-3-4-to-hdmi-2-1-4k-120hz-rgb4-4-4-10b-hdr-with-apple-silicon-m1-m2-m3-now-possible.2381664/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/dp-usb-c-thunderbolt-3-... Here's the exact model I have: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ethernet-Delivery-Charging/dp/B095821QGP#customerReviews https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ethernet-Delivery-Charg...
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    > The problem for me is Windows. Perennial truth since XP
    - _mlbt 2y ago
      2000, XP, and 7 were actually pretty solid releases of Windows. Vista was okay after hardware caught up and it got a few patches. 10 was a huge improvement over 8.x, but 11 has had a lot of bugginess for me, particularly related to the new Start menu.
- TiredOfLife 2y ago
  On SteamDeck Geforce Now is limited to 1080p, due to NVIDIA being a tiny indie company with no resources to make a native client.
  - davely 2y ago
    This is, of course, a non issue as the resolution of the Steam Deck is 1280x800. Edit: I am silly. Of course, people mean hooking it up to a bigger screen.
npsomaratna 2y ago
Are these games available on OSX? Or are you somehow booting Windows? (Apologies if this seems like a stupid question. I've not played games for a very long time, mainly because most stuff doesn't seem to be available on Macs).
- fckgw 2y ago
  All those games listed have native Apple Silicon Mac ports now.
  - sammyeatworld 2y ago
    Only WoW, LoL and Dota are being translated through the Rosetta.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - _mlbt 2y ago
      WoW itself is actually native Apple Silicon, but I believe the launcher uses Rosetta.
  - int_19h 2y ago
    In my experience with gaming on Macs, even when there is a native Mac port of a particular game, the experience is inferior to Windows more often than not. Many of them don't do 4K properly, for example (you get everything rendered at half-res in fullscreen). Things like Cmd+Tab don't work reliably, either.
- smileybarry 2y ago
  Yes — World of Warcraft, League of Legends and DotA 2 all have native macOS ports. WoW got an Apple Silicon port relatively recently IIRC (last expansion).
  - sammyeatworld 2y ago
JKCalhoun 2y ago
My Intel Mac Mini is still my "tv content" machine. Since it has no problem driving my Samsung OLED TV and keeping up with typical video framerates I suspect I will be holding on to it for many more years to come.
grahamj 2y ago
It’s smaller and has their own chip so I should hope it’s no more expensive.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
> Anything that it doesn't run due to MacOS I use GeForce Now over ethernet. Can you elaborate? Thinking of setting up a MacMini for my kids but worried about lack of gaming options for them (I haven't gamed on a Mac in a dozen years and the state of gaming on MacOS was sad back then).
- tacoooooooo 2y ago
  GeForce Now https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/ nvidias cloud gaming offering. it works pretty well
- ojhughes 2y ago
  Xbox cloud gaming also works great over ethernet on Mac
- theshrike79 2y ago
  Geforce Now is pretty much the only still viable game streaming service, you can run it on pretty much anything. The free tier is mostly crap (you only get to play if no paid users are using the capacity pretty much), but the paid tiers go from good to excellent. Its main selling point is that you don't need to buy games for it separately, you can use your existing Steam catalog for example.
- leetharris 2y ago
  There's a lot of Mac games on Steam, Apple Arcade, and Battle.net these days. Anything that isn't supported there, I generally use Xbox streaming or GeForce Now streaming. Here's a list of my most played games on my Mac in the last couple of years: WoW, Hearthstone, Dota 2, League of Legends, Thronefall, Vampire Survivors, Baldur's Gate 3, Cult of the Lamb, Balatro, Death Must Die, Terraria, Dave the Diver, Mechabellum, Space Haven, Hades 2, Peglin, Stellaris, RimWorld, Dead Cells, Total War: Warhammer 2, Valheim, Civilization 6, Slay the Spire, Don't Starve Together, Cities: Skylines, Oxygen Not Included, SUPERHOT. Games I play through GeForce Now: Fortnite, Diablo 4, WoW, Apex Legends, Halo Infinite, Baldur's Gate 3, Cyberpunk 2077 The point of such an annoying long comment is to demonstrate that there is a very substantial Mac gaming library. The problem is that a new shiny game comes out that doesn't support Mac and you don't want to be the ONE guy in your group who can't play it because you're on Mac. The latest one for me is Deadlock. Not on GeForce Now, not on console, not on Mac... so I needed to get a Windows PC. But if you're a kid and just looking for a general gaming machine, it plays a ton of cool stuff.
shadowmanifold 2y ago
It will make me a mac owner for the first time in 25 years. I was just looking at a mac book air yesterday but I just can't get over the complete ripoff of a memory upgrade from the base model. 16 gig starting at $599. I honestly don't need to know anything else to buy one.
- barfingclouds 2y ago
  I got the Mac mini m1 as my first Apple computer recently (used). It’s really cool. It never heats up ever
  - _mlbt 2y ago
    My Mac mini M1 is still such a great computer and I really don't need to upgrade, but with the spec bump up to 16GB of RAM, $230 trade in value that Apple is telling me they'll give me, and the $499 education pricing (I'm currently doing a Masters degree) it's too tempting to pass up.
- sanitycheck 2y ago
  My first thought was similar, though followed quickly by "...but it's Apple, so what's the catch?" The relevant extra things to know are that the SSD is soldered, there are no slots for extra SSDs, and choosing a sensible (1TB) drive is >4X the price of buying similar storage at retail. Still a no from me, then. (The only thing I do often that's CPU-limited is compiling, being faster at that saves me maybe a few minutes in a full working day; I don't care. I am frequently limited by RAM and I really hate shuffling things around to make space on drives.)
- Refusing23 2y ago
  remember a good monitor. scaling is kinda annoying on mac's, with lower resolution (under 4K)
- al_borland 2y ago
  If you wanted a MacBook Air, that was also upgraded to 16GB of RAM for the base model for the same price.

eamag 2y ago

Isn't steamdeck a better option for this use case?

tom_ 2y ago
Assuming you don't want to use it for all the various other things you can also use a Mac for - sure, maybe.
leetharris 2y ago
I have a Steam Deck, Asus ROG Ally, M2 Mac Mini, M1 Pro laptop, M2 Max laptop (work). All of this runs on either an LG C3 42" OLED or a 34" 1440p ultrawide. Linux GeForce Now can only do 720p or 1080p, can't remember which. Also, it's just kind of laggy in desktop mode. The Macs run so much smoother. My current "main" desktop is actually my Asus ROG Ally. I use one USB C hub that is capable of 4k120hz, and I can move it between my Mac laptops and Asus ROG Ally very seamlessly. The problem for me is Windows. Yesterday my start menu stopped loading for some reason and required a full reboot. Sometimes it refuses to go to sleep. Sometimes it refuses to come out of sleep. Sometimes a Windows update kicks off in the middle of a game and it slows everything to a crawl. Windows drives me crazy these days!
- talldayo 2y ago
  Get rid of Windows on it! Digital Foundry put out a great video on this exact process the other day, weighing the pros and cons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwWRCrGoXV0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwWRCrGoXV0 Neither MacOS nor Windows are very good console OSes - you're really better off using Linux where anticheat isn't concerned. Even on the Ally.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > Neither MacOS nor Windows are very good console OSes They're great OSes for consumers who don't really work on their computers, and just want something that caters to the lowest common denominator. For professionals who use computers for work, Linux is really the only option that doesn't eventually get in your way. You can set it up and leave it as-is, with only security updates, and everything keeps working the same way, basically forever. I've tried to set up an experience like that on both macOS and Windows, but eventually, the company will find a way of forcing an update on your, intentionally or not.
    - philistine 2y ago
      Thank you so much for telling me that I am actually not managing my non-profit on my Mac. I was convinced I was working every day on a Mac in a business setting, but I guess I was mistaken.
    - Veen 2y ago
      What does "work on their computer" mean to you? I suspect it's not what it means to the vast majority of people.
    - 1propionyl 2y ago
      > For professionals who use computers for work, Linux is really the only option that doesn't eventually get in your way. I really hope you're not expecting anyone to take you seriously with this. On principle I get what you're saying but in practice no one who works as a professional in any field has the time (or expertise) to be worried about configuring their operating system. As a Linux evangelist who begrudgingly daily drives a Mac, this kind of attitude is what does us in. It's the cocksure "akshually Linux is best" even when it materially, experientially, just isn't. Denial is not a design ethos.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        I'll take him seriously on it. MacOS and Windows are terrible for professional purposes, for a number of reasons: 1. Requires Windows Pro or Apple Developer license to unlock full featureset 2. Cannot reasonably disable targeted advertising or ad data collection from either OS 3. Neither come with package managers and do not respect third-party packaging either 4. Can be "managed" insofar as your buggy CPM software allows, often glitched by the OS itself 5. The experience is always getting worse since Apple and Microsoft share a united front of making people spend as much money on useless shit as humanly possible Now, that's not to say nobody should use these OSes - certainly people are locked into them for some purposes. But as a programmer it's genuinely hard for me to be productive on these OSes because I end up fighting them just for everyday, non-programming purposes. I think it's entirely possible that MacOS and Windows can be inherently terrible experiences while also being mandatory for certain workflows.
- diggan 2y ago
  > Windows drives me crazy these days! At least it boots. I purchase a Surface Pro 8 a year ago or something, thinking Windows would surely work better than usual when it is Microsoft's own hardware too. But no, yesterday it got stuck in a boot loop, after a Windows update broke the audio drivers somehow. The Windows logs/reliability report can just tell me it "shut down abnormally" without any technical details what so ever. I still have to use Windows on my desktop because of Ableton, but I'll never purchase any Microsoft hardware again, and as soon as I can, I'll run Ableton on Linux like the rest of my software.
  - fennecbutt 2y ago
    Tbf I've had the same thing with macos doing stuff like randomly recreating my keychain on login and other weirdness. As a developer really I can work on Linux or Windows or macos. Long as I'm getting paid. Tools in the toolbox.
- influx 2y ago
  What's the model of that USB C hub? Looking for one that I can switch between Windows and Mac (and maybe Linux)
  - leetharris 2y ago
    These Cable Matters ones work well, but need their firmware flashed. Luckily, it was extremely easy and worked great for me. Here's an Apple forum thread about it: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/dp-usb-c-thunderbolt-3-4-to-hdmi-2-1-4k-120hz-rgb4-4-4-10b-hdr-with-apple-silicon-m1-m2-m3-now-possible.2381664/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/dp-usb-c-thunderbolt-3-... Here's the exact model I have: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ethernet-Delivery-Charging/dp/B095821QGP#customerReviews https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ethernet-Delivery-Charg...
- jacktheturtle 2y ago
  can you share the USB C hub? i need one of these and can't find one that makes it easy to swap between mac & gaming rig
  - leetharris 2y ago
    Posted in another comment: These Cable Matters ones work well, but need their firmware flashed. Luckily, it was extremely easy and worked great for me. Here's an Apple forum thread about it: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/dp-usb-c-thunderbolt-3-4-to-hdmi-2-1-4k-120hz-rgb4-4-4-10b-hdr-with-apple-silicon-m1-m2-m3-now-possible.2381664/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/dp-usb-c-thunderbolt-3-... Here's the exact model I have: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ethernet-Delivery-Charging/dp/B095821QGP#customerReviews https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ethernet-Delivery-Charg...
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  > The problem for me is Windows. Perennial truth since XP
  - _mlbt 2y ago
    2000, XP, and 7 were actually pretty solid releases of Windows. Vista was okay after hardware caught up and it got a few patches. 10 was a huge improvement over 8.x, but 11 has had a lot of bugginess for me, particularly related to the new Start menu.
TiredOfLife 2y ago
On SteamDeck Geforce Now is limited to 1080p, due to NVIDIA being a tiny indie company with no resources to make a native client.
- davely 2y ago
  This is, of course, a non issue as the resolution of the Steam Deck is 1280x800. Edit: I am silly. Of course, people mean hooking it up to a bigger screen.

npsomaratna 2y ago

Are these games available on OSX? Or are you somehow booting Windows? (Apologies if this seems like a stupid question. I've not played games for a very long time, mainly because most stuff doesn't seem to be available on Macs).

fckgw 2y ago
All those games listed have native Apple Silicon Mac ports now.
- sammyeatworld 2y ago
  Only WoW, LoL and Dota are being translated through the Rosetta.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - _mlbt 2y ago
    WoW itself is actually native Apple Silicon, but I believe the launcher uses Rosetta.
- int_19h 2y ago
  In my experience with gaming on Macs, even when there is a native Mac port of a particular game, the experience is inferior to Windows more often than not. Many of them don't do 4K properly, for example (you get everything rendered at half-res in fullscreen). Things like Cmd+Tab don't work reliably, either.
smileybarry 2y ago
Yes — World of Warcraft, League of Legends and DotA 2 all have native macOS ports. WoW got an Apple Silicon port relatively recently IIRC (last expansion).
- sammyeatworld 2y ago

JKCalhoun 2y ago

My Intel Mac Mini is still my "tv content" machine. Since it has no problem driving my Samsung OLED TV and keeping up with typical video framerates I suspect I will be holding on to it for many more years to come.

grahamj 2y ago

It’s smaller and has their own chip so I should hope it’s no more expensive.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

> Anything that it doesn't run due to MacOS I use GeForce Now over ethernet. Can you elaborate? Thinking of setting up a MacMini for my kids but worried about lack of gaming options for them (I haven't gamed on a Mac in a dozen years and the state of gaming on MacOS was sad back then).

tacoooooooo 2y ago
GeForce Now https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/ nvidias cloud gaming offering. it works pretty well
ojhughes 2y ago
Xbox cloud gaming also works great over ethernet on Mac
theshrike79 2y ago
Geforce Now is pretty much the only still viable game streaming service, you can run it on pretty much anything. The free tier is mostly crap (you only get to play if no paid users are using the capacity pretty much), but the paid tiers go from good to excellent. Its main selling point is that you don't need to buy games for it separately, you can use your existing Steam catalog for example.
leetharris 2y ago
There's a lot of Mac games on Steam, Apple Arcade, and Battle.net these days. Anything that isn't supported there, I generally use Xbox streaming or GeForce Now streaming. Here's a list of my most played games on my Mac in the last couple of years: WoW, Hearthstone, Dota 2, League of Legends, Thronefall, Vampire Survivors, Baldur's Gate 3, Cult of the Lamb, Balatro, Death Must Die, Terraria, Dave the Diver, Mechabellum, Space Haven, Hades 2, Peglin, Stellaris, RimWorld, Dead Cells, Total War: Warhammer 2, Valheim, Civilization 6, Slay the Spire, Don't Starve Together, Cities: Skylines, Oxygen Not Included, SUPERHOT. Games I play through GeForce Now: Fortnite, Diablo 4, WoW, Apex Legends, Halo Infinite, Baldur's Gate 3, Cyberpunk 2077 The point of such an annoying long comment is to demonstrate that there is a very substantial Mac gaming library. The problem is that a new shiny game comes out that doesn't support Mac and you don't want to be the ONE guy in your group who can't play it because you're on Mac. The latest one for me is Deadlock. Not on GeForce Now, not on console, not on Mac... so I needed to get a Windows PC. But if you're a kid and just looking for a general gaming machine, it plays a ton of cool stuff.

shadowmanifold 2y ago

It will make me a mac owner for the first time in 25 years. I was just looking at a mac book air yesterday but I just can't get over the complete ripoff of a memory upgrade from the base model. 16 gig starting at $599. I honestly don't need to know anything else to buy one.

barfingclouds 2y ago
I got the Mac mini m1 as my first Apple computer recently (used). It’s really cool. It never heats up ever
- _mlbt 2y ago
  My Mac mini M1 is still such a great computer and I really don't need to upgrade, but with the spec bump up to 16GB of RAM, $230 trade in value that Apple is telling me they'll give me, and the $499 education pricing (I'm currently doing a Masters degree) it's too tempting to pass up.
sanitycheck 2y ago
My first thought was similar, though followed quickly by "...but it's Apple, so what's the catch?" The relevant extra things to know are that the SSD is soldered, there are no slots for extra SSDs, and choosing a sensible (1TB) drive is >4X the price of buying similar storage at retail. Still a no from me, then. (The only thing I do often that's CPU-limited is compiling, being faster at that saves me maybe a few minutes in a full working day; I don't care. I am frequently limited by RAM and I really hate shuffling things around to make space on drives.)
Refusing23 2y ago
remember a good monitor. scaling is kinda annoying on mac's, with lower resolution (under 4K)
al_borland 2y ago
If you wanted a MacBook Air, that was also upgraded to 16GB of RAM for the base model for the same price.