3 ms·

I think I've seen the sex thing attributed to the "loneliness epidemic" and internet use that comes up alot. If that is true, makes sense for the same cause to

by tayo42 2y ago

I think I've seen the sex thing attributed to the "loneliness epidemic" and internet use that comes up alot. If that is true, makes sense for the same cause to apply to smoking and drinking. Drinking beers by yourself as a teen is weird, you generally at least start that stuff with friends.

alephnerd 2y ago
I'm a Zillenial and my sibling is Gen Z. Most people our age in general are much more cautious about decisions because a bad mistake like an unplanned pregnancy can ruin your life. Also, in general, abstinence and non-abstinence doesn't have any moral baggage for us. We aren't judging you if you choose to do drugs or have sex, but we also aren't judging people who choose not to do that stuff.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Why do you think the caution is higher? do you have any thoughts on what changed?
  - noitpmeder 2y ago
    It's more accessible what the negative consequences are. For example, I doubt many people 50 years ago knew what a lung looks like after a lifetime of smoking, or exactly how much it increases your cancer rates. Now everyone's seen the photos even if they aren't a smoker.
    - michaelsbradley 2y ago
      When I was growing up in the 1980s in the US, anti-smoking campaigns were everywhere all the time every day: on TV, in magazines, posters, etc. A lung damaged by lifetime smoking was a common visual. So I don't think that information is much more accessible, broadly speaking, though Internet access has certainly increased the amount of information on the topic that's readily accessible. The shift in attitude could be owing to other factors, or maybe it just took time for the warnings to sink in, i.e. generationally.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        And people in the 80's knew that pregnancy was a risk of fucking. I wonder if it is change in the way risks are processed and considered overall.
        ryandrake 2y ago
        I think the definition of "ruin your life" is different now than it was in the 80s. Stakes are higher for kids now, and one little mistake can put you on the road to the have-nots instead of the haves. Back when I was in high school, you could make mistakes and still end up successful. You could get a few B's in your grades, you could decide not to do so many sports and extracurriculars, you could get detention, you could even get in light trouble with the police for horsing around--and still make it into a good University and move on to a good career. I know because I made all of those mistakes. Plus, the consequences for being mediocre were not too severe. B students had community college, C and D students had decent jobs at the mill and the factory or could learn a trade, and so on. Today, the bar for entry into a comfortable, middle class career is so high, that my kid needs to make zero mistakes. She has to get straight As, she has to stay out of any kind of trouble, she has to have the right polished "profile" for all the various career- and life-gatekeepers she will meet and need to pass. And if she doesn't pass the gatekeepers, where is she going to end up? There is no safety net and no real humane jobs left for lower-performers. Life is so much more bifurcated now, the kids know it, and they stress about not making a mis-step. In the 80s I was competing with my small town. Now, kids are competing with the entire world.
        tiberious726 2y ago
        Eh, growing up around the same time as you, I think that's just how it's always looked to certain parents.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        I think you absolutely on to something, but I wonder how much of this a shift in perception vs reality. I agree the linear progression of school>College>good job seems a lot more cutthroat and inflexible. That said, it seems like there are still lots of alternative paths out there for smart motivated people- they just arent clearly paved. I have a long time to think about it, but I'm not even sure if I will encourage my kids to go to college, for the reasons you outlined. They may be better off doing work that isnt readily outsourced. Much of this will depend on what the economy looks like in 15 years. As it stands today, I'd be tempted to give my kid 150k to start a plumbing business instead of paying for college.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > Why do you think the caution is higher? do you have any thoughts on what changed? In the US, Roe v Wade obviously. In Germany, more and more doctors willing to perform abortions are retiring and less new doctors enter the force [1], leaving pregnant women (or women who think they might get pregnant) pretty much down on their luck. [1] https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/gesellschaft/ungewollt-schwanger-nicht-genug-aerzte-abtreibungen-100.html https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/gesellschaft/unge...
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      Seems like sex has been trending down since the 80's or 90's. I dont think it was because teens had premonitions of the 2022 overturn of Roe. Edit: It seems the correction actually goes the opposite direction. Teen sex is lowest in blue states that are most protective of abortion, and highest in red states. California take the cake with lowest teen sex rate [1]. Correlation obviously isnt causation, but it is interesting to see the clear cultural differences in teen sex. https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/report_pdf/youth-risk-behavior-surveys-2019.pdf https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/report_pdf/yo...
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    > do you have any thoughts on what changed? Caution was always a thing, but societal and peer pressure is much less now. Look at older Millenial shows like Futurama and Archer. They are hilarious, but they absolutely perpetuate the idea that drinking alcohol is cool and a core part of being an adult. On the other hand, a Zillenial or Gen Z targeted show like Bojack Horseman, Rick and Morty, or Solar Opposites doesn't show substance abuse in a similar manner - it still makes jokes about it, but also shows the dark side. In high school getting a fake id to drink some beer, getting laid, or smoking weed or cigarettes with the stoners just isn't a cultural milestone anymore. It's like what Chef said in South Park - "There's a time and a place for everything, and that's college"
    - namaria 2y ago
      All I got from growing up on Futurama and Archer was that alcohol was something grade a assholes loved.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
I dont think it makes sense to draw a causal attribution from loneliness. It seems like these would both be related symptoms of a shared cause. Also, I dont know when the loneliness epidemic kicks in, but I usually hear about it in terms of adults. Are teens also increasingly lonely?
- aSanchezStern 2y ago
  Yeah, younger generations are spending less and less time with friends in person [1] and feeling lonelier and lonelier as a result [2]. [1] https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4037619-teens-are-spending-less-time-than-ever-with-friends/ https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4037619-teens-a... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/teens-loneliness-smart-phones/2021/07/20/cde8c866-e84e-11eb-8950-d73b3e93ff7f_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/teens-lon...
Der_Einzige 2y ago
Weed is uniquely fun to do by yourself. It's the ultimate drug for zoning out on the computer and playing video games with. Weed is the perfect drugs for "incelish" lonely teenager who sit at home all day - an increasingly large percentage of the youth. Alcohol is not like this at all.
ErigmolCt 2y ago
It really highlights how social dynamics shape these behaviors!

by tayo42 2y ago

alephnerd 2y ago

I'm a Zillenial and my sibling is Gen Z. Most people our age in general are much more cautious about decisions because a bad mistake like an unplanned pregnancy can ruin your life. Also, in general, abstinence and non-abstinence doesn't have any moral baggage for us. We aren't judging you if you choose to do drugs or have sex, but we also aren't judging people who choose not to do that stuff.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
Why do you think the caution is higher? do you have any thoughts on what changed?
- noitpmeder 2y ago
  It's more accessible what the negative consequences are. For example, I doubt many people 50 years ago knew what a lung looks like after a lifetime of smoking, or exactly how much it increases your cancer rates. Now everyone's seen the photos even if they aren't a smoker.
  - michaelsbradley 2y ago
    When I was growing up in the 1980s in the US, anti-smoking campaigns were everywhere all the time every day: on TV, in magazines, posters, etc. A lung damaged by lifetime smoking was a common visual. So I don't think that information is much more accessible, broadly speaking, though Internet access has certainly increased the amount of information on the topic that's readily accessible. The shift in attitude could be owing to other factors, or maybe it just took time for the warnings to sink in, i.e. generationally.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      And people in the 80's knew that pregnancy was a risk of fucking. I wonder if it is change in the way risks are processed and considered overall.
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        I think the definition of "ruin your life" is different now than it was in the 80s. Stakes are higher for kids now, and one little mistake can put you on the road to the have-nots instead of the haves. Back when I was in high school, you could make mistakes and still end up successful. You could get a few B's in your grades, you could decide not to do so many sports and extracurriculars, you could get detention, you could even get in light trouble with the police for horsing around--and still make it into a good University and move on to a good career. I know because I made all of those mistakes. Plus, the consequences for being mediocre were not too severe. B students had community college, C and D students had decent jobs at the mill and the factory or could learn a trade, and so on. Today, the bar for entry into a comfortable, middle class career is so high, that my kid needs to make zero mistakes. She has to get straight As, she has to stay out of any kind of trouble, she has to have the right polished "profile" for all the various career- and life-gatekeepers she will meet and need to pass. And if she doesn't pass the gatekeepers, where is she going to end up? There is no safety net and no real humane jobs left for lower-performers. Life is so much more bifurcated now, the kids know it, and they stress about not making a mis-step. In the 80s I was competing with my small town. Now, kids are competing with the entire world.
        tiberious726 2y ago
        Eh, growing up around the same time as you, I think that's just how it's always looked to certain parents.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        I think you absolutely on to something, but I wonder how much of this a shift in perception vs reality. I agree the linear progression of school>College>good job seems a lot more cutthroat and inflexible. That said, it seems like there are still lots of alternative paths out there for smart motivated people- they just arent clearly paved. I have a long time to think about it, but I'm not even sure if I will encourage my kids to go to college, for the reasons you outlined. They may be better off doing work that isnt readily outsourced. Much of this will depend on what the economy looks like in 15 years. As it stands today, I'd be tempted to give my kid 150k to start a plumbing business instead of paying for college.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > Why do you think the caution is higher? do you have any thoughts on what changed? In the US, Roe v Wade obviously. In Germany, more and more doctors willing to perform abortions are retiring and less new doctors enter the force [1], leaving pregnant women (or women who think they might get pregnant) pretty much down on their luck. [1] https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/gesellschaft/ungewollt-schwanger-nicht-genug-aerzte-abtreibungen-100.html https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/gesellschaft/unge...
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Seems like sex has been trending down since the 80's or 90's. I dont think it was because teens had premonitions of the 2022 overturn of Roe. Edit: It seems the correction actually goes the opposite direction. Teen sex is lowest in blue states that are most protective of abortion, and highest in red states. California take the cake with lowest teen sex rate [1]. Correlation obviously isnt causation, but it is interesting to see the clear cultural differences in teen sex. https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/report_pdf/youth-risk-behavior-surveys-2019.pdf https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/report_pdf/yo...
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > do you have any thoughts on what changed? Caution was always a thing, but societal and peer pressure is much less now. Look at older Millenial shows like Futurama and Archer. They are hilarious, but they absolutely perpetuate the idea that drinking alcohol is cool and a core part of being an adult. On the other hand, a Zillenial or Gen Z targeted show like Bojack Horseman, Rick and Morty, or Solar Opposites doesn't show substance abuse in a similar manner - it still makes jokes about it, but also shows the dark side. In high school getting a fake id to drink some beer, getting laid, or smoking weed or cigarettes with the stoners just isn't a cultural milestone anymore. It's like what Chef said in South Park - "There's a time and a place for everything, and that's college"
  - namaria 2y ago
    All I got from growing up on Futurama and Archer was that alcohol was something grade a assholes loved.

s1artibartfast 2y ago

I dont think it makes sense to draw a causal attribution from loneliness. It seems like these would both be related symptoms of a shared cause. Also, I dont know when the loneliness epidemic kicks in, but I usually hear about it in terms of adults. Are teens also increasingly lonely?

aSanchezStern 2y ago
Yeah, younger generations are spending less and less time with friends in person [1] and feeling lonelier and lonelier as a result [2]. [1] https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4037619-teens-are-spending-less-time-than-ever-with-friends/ https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4037619-teens-a... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/teens-loneliness-smart-phones/2021/07/20/cde8c866-e84e-11eb-8950-d73b3e93ff7f_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/teens-lon...

Der_Einzige 2y ago

Weed is uniquely fun to do by yourself. It's the ultimate drug for zoning out on the computer and playing video games with. Weed is the perfect drugs for "incelish" lonely teenager who sit at home all day - an increasingly large percentage of the youth. Alcohol is not like this at all.

ErigmolCt 2y ago

It really highlights how social dynamics shape these behaviors!