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I wonder how much of this is attributable to legalization or other factors. Teen Alcohol use has gone down ~50% over the last 30 years, and but there has been

I wonder how much of this is attributable to legalization or other factors. Teen Alcohol use has gone down ~50% over the last 30 years, and but there has been no legalization effort there. Similarly, teen sex rate has also gone down ~50% over the same time period. Overall, abstention from behaviors seems to be a major trend. I would be curious to know if this is due to a cultural aversion to perceived risky behaviors, lack of autonomy, or some other factor like rate of behavior modification medicine.

ToDougie 2y ago
Some ideas: Parents are being cautious with their (statistically fewer) children. Prevalence of CCTV and panopticon theory making risky behavior seem impossible. Disappearance of third spaces. Crazy homeless druggies everywhere. Consequences of abuse are far more obvious.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  Proliferation of scheduled stuff beyond the school day leaving less free time to engage in activities that can't be done on a screen. I think your comment about homeless is too specific to certain regions.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Or, the "always there" nature of screen activities makes it very easy to never do anything else. When I was a kid we had no mobile phones, nor did we have computers or internet. if you wanted to talk with your friends you had to go meet up with them in person. So hanging out at the mall or at a park or an arcade was pretty common. So were after-school activities, sports, band, clubs, etc. A lot of this stuff, being away from home, was marginally or totally unsupervised, so there was a lot more opportunity to try "illegal" things.
tayo42 2y ago
I think I've seen the sex thing attributed to the "loneliness epidemic" and internet use that comes up alot. If that is true, makes sense for the same cause to apply to smoking and drinking. Drinking beers by yourself as a teen is weird, you generally at least start that stuff with friends.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  I'm a Zillenial and my sibling is Gen Z. Most people our age in general are much more cautious about decisions because a bad mistake like an unplanned pregnancy can ruin your life. Also, in general, abstinence and non-abstinence doesn't have any moral baggage for us. We aren't judging you if you choose to do drugs or have sex, but we also aren't judging people who choose not to do that stuff.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Why do you think the caution is higher? do you have any thoughts on what changed?
    - noitpmeder 2y ago
      It's more accessible what the negative consequences are. For example, I doubt many people 50 years ago knew what a lung looks like after a lifetime of smoking, or exactly how much it increases your cancer rates. Now everyone's seen the photos even if they aren't a smoker.
      - michaelsbradley 2y ago
        When I was growing up in the 1980s in the US, anti-smoking campaigns were everywhere all the time every day: on TV, in magazines, posters, etc. A lung damaged by lifetime smoking was a common visual. So I don't think that information is much more accessible, broadly speaking, though Internet access has certainly increased the amount of information on the topic that's readily accessible. The shift in attitude could be owing to other factors, or maybe it just took time for the warnings to sink in, i.e. generationally.
logicchains 2y ago
Gen Z men have been becoming more and more conservative politically, maybe it also translates into more conservative views on drugs and alcohol.
- znpy 2y ago
  > Gen Z men have been becoming more and more conservative politically, maybe it also translates into more conservative views on drugs and alcohol. i'm not sure that's the right way to read that. if you cut out the extremes (of the content Gaussian) you see that much content geared towards GenZ males is of self-care nature: go to the gym, take care of your own body, avoid alcohol and other drugs, take care of your mental health and go to therapy if you can, read philosophy. it's a beautiful change since i was a teenager (~15 years ago), way much healthier than what i was exposed to as a teenager. it's not problems-free of course, but still, i view it as positive change.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Unfortunately, rates of depression, misery, and loneliness are also significantly up, so I wouldn't be so fast to call the overall cultural change a healthy and beautiful win. I wonder how much these factors go hand in hand.
    - consteval 2y ago
      From what I've seen they go hand and hand a lot. All anecdotal of course, but much of the "self-improvement" content I've seen for young men is from the angle that they are failures, and they can "cure" their inadequacies through various channels. Of course it's not really true, just a bit true. Going to the gym won't make you stop hating yourself, any bodybuilder will tell you that. Going to the gym, no-fap, etc are all chosen as channels because they provide an immediate sense of accomplishment while being relatively easy. But they don't materially improve the circumstances of your life. It's simple to spend an hour at the gym and you will immediately feel better. But you didn't magically gain friends, a community, a sense of belonging or a reason to live. Those require being uncomfortable and pushing yourself mentally, emotionally, and socially. That's much more difficult than pushing weight. Ultimately young men just want to believe and feel like they're doing something right.
r00fus 2y ago
Could also be that alcohol is like 2x as expensive over the past 30 years.
- onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
  Except it's not when adjusted for wages: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3631317/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3631317/
  - r00fus 2y ago
    a) your data is only till 2011 and misses some extreme inflation in the past 10 years. b) we're talking youth - who are nowadays also less likely to be manning the fast food counters - I remember working at 14 years old and now in many states that's not permitted until 16. So even less disposable income.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
      Unemployment is lower today than it was 20 years ago: https://www.statista.com/statistics/217882/us-unemployment-rate-by-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/217882/us-unemployment-r... (though it hasn't materially changed one way or the other). If teens and young adults NEEDED to work but couldn't find jobs, the unemployment rate for that age group would show it.
      - DrPimienta 2y ago
        We all know those numbers are intentionally skewed to make things look way better than they actually are.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Maybe, But still incredibly cheap for a teen looking to drunk. 1.75 Liters of vodka is $8.99 at the corner store. That will get 20 kids puking drunk for the price of a hamburger.
dfxm12 2y ago
There are probably many/a combination of reasons. One thing I think that hasn't been brought up in this thread yet is a smaller amount of popular media portraying marijuana use in a tolerable light. In terms of movies, how few and far between are big weed movies? Was the last one Pineapple Express, 15 years ago? Go back a few decades and there were a bunch of big movies, songs, etc. year after year about smoking weed.
dyauspitr 2y ago
The standard answer to this is teens are spending a significant amount of their time on social media which ends up replacing these other vices.
thescriptkiddie 2y ago
it kinda seems to me like teenagers are abstaining from behaviors altogether, not just risky ones. possible explanations that come to mind are widespread anhedonia (depression) and the the fact that suburban kids who are too young to drive can't leave their homes without their parents.
Auracle 2y ago
As someone who just quit doing high school senior photography last year I think it’s a lot more simple: They don’t have time. I can’t tell you how incredibly hard it is to schedule (and especially reschedule) sessions with many of them. A lot of kids always have some sport or other after school activity going on. Those sports often have training before the school day, after the school day, with actual competitions or more training on weekends. Oh, and summer is no exception. Combine that with loads of homework and they’re being run ragged.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  That rings true. I chalk that up into "lack of autonomy" category. I feel like modern kids have their life path set out on steel rails. The whole system is set up to see who can grind away hardest so that someday they can be an obedient and hard working corporate cog. In the 90's and early 00's, we didn't even have homework and could get into top tier colleges. The kids in my family are now doing 4 hours of busywork a day. The incentives of education today care very little about talent and are one big struggle session.
- ErigmolCt 2y ago
  How demanding high school life can be these days...
mr_toad 2y ago
I see a lot of influencers and the like pushing a lot of dumb stuff online - but they aren’t pushing drugs and alcohol.
- portaouflop 2y ago
  Because it’s not legal…
ErigmolCt 2y ago
It could be influenced by increased awareness of risks...

ToDougie 2y ago

Some ideas: Parents are being cautious with their (statistically fewer) children. Prevalence of CCTV and panopticon theory making risky behavior seem impossible. Disappearance of third spaces. Crazy homeless druggies everywhere. Consequences of abuse are far more obvious.

potato3732842 2y ago
Proliferation of scheduled stuff beyond the school day leaving less free time to engage in activities that can't be done on a screen. I think your comment about homeless is too specific to certain regions.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Or, the "always there" nature of screen activities makes it very easy to never do anything else. When I was a kid we had no mobile phones, nor did we have computers or internet. if you wanted to talk with your friends you had to go meet up with them in person. So hanging out at the mall or at a park or an arcade was pretty common. So were after-school activities, sports, band, clubs, etc. A lot of this stuff, being away from home, was marginally or totally unsupervised, so there was a lot more opportunity to try "illegal" things.

tayo42 2y ago

I think I've seen the sex thing attributed to the "loneliness epidemic" and internet use that comes up alot. If that is true, makes sense for the same cause to apply to smoking and drinking. Drinking beers by yourself as a teen is weird, you generally at least start that stuff with friends.

alephnerd 2y ago
I'm a Zillenial and my sibling is Gen Z. Most people our age in general are much more cautious about decisions because a bad mistake like an unplanned pregnancy can ruin your life. Also, in general, abstinence and non-abstinence doesn't have any moral baggage for us. We aren't judging you if you choose to do drugs or have sex, but we also aren't judging people who choose not to do that stuff.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Why do you think the caution is higher? do you have any thoughts on what changed?
  - noitpmeder 2y ago
    It's more accessible what the negative consequences are. For example, I doubt many people 50 years ago knew what a lung looks like after a lifetime of smoking, or exactly how much it increases your cancer rates. Now everyone's seen the photos even if they aren't a smoker.
    - michaelsbradley 2y ago
      When I was growing up in the 1980s in the US, anti-smoking campaigns were everywhere all the time every day: on TV, in magazines, posters, etc. A lung damaged by lifetime smoking was a common visual. So I don't think that information is much more accessible, broadly speaking, though Internet access has certainly increased the amount of information on the topic that's readily accessible. The shift in attitude could be owing to other factors, or maybe it just took time for the warnings to sink in, i.e. generationally.

logicchains 2y ago

Gen Z men have been becoming more and more conservative politically, maybe it also translates into more conservative views on drugs and alcohol.

znpy 2y ago
> Gen Z men have been becoming more and more conservative politically, maybe it also translates into more conservative views on drugs and alcohol. i'm not sure that's the right way to read that. if you cut out the extremes (of the content Gaussian) you see that much content geared towards GenZ males is of self-care nature: go to the gym, take care of your own body, avoid alcohol and other drugs, take care of your mental health and go to therapy if you can, read philosophy. it's a beautiful change since i was a teenager (~15 years ago), way much healthier than what i was exposed to as a teenager. it's not problems-free of course, but still, i view it as positive change.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Unfortunately, rates of depression, misery, and loneliness are also significantly up, so I wouldn't be so fast to call the overall cultural change a healthy and beautiful win. I wonder how much these factors go hand in hand.
  - consteval 2y ago
    From what I've seen they go hand and hand a lot. All anecdotal of course, but much of the "self-improvement" content I've seen for young men is from the angle that they are failures, and they can "cure" their inadequacies through various channels. Of course it's not really true, just a bit true. Going to the gym won't make you stop hating yourself, any bodybuilder will tell you that. Going to the gym, no-fap, etc are all chosen as channels because they provide an immediate sense of accomplishment while being relatively easy. But they don't materially improve the circumstances of your life. It's simple to spend an hour at the gym and you will immediately feel better. But you didn't magically gain friends, a community, a sense of belonging or a reason to live. Those require being uncomfortable and pushing yourself mentally, emotionally, and socially. That's much more difficult than pushing weight. Ultimately young men just want to believe and feel like they're doing something right.

r00fus 2y ago

Could also be that alcohol is like 2x as expensive over the past 30 years.

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
Except it's not when adjusted for wages: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3631317/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3631317/
- r00fus 2y ago
  a) your data is only till 2011 and misses some extreme inflation in the past 10 years. b) we're talking youth - who are nowadays also less likely to be manning the fast food counters - I remember working at 14 years old and now in many states that's not permitted until 16. So even less disposable income.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
    Unemployment is lower today than it was 20 years ago: https://www.statista.com/statistics/217882/us-unemployment-rate-by-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/217882/us-unemployment-r... (though it hasn't materially changed one way or the other). If teens and young adults NEEDED to work but couldn't find jobs, the unemployment rate for that age group would show it.
    - DrPimienta 2y ago
      We all know those numbers are intentionally skewed to make things look way better than they actually are.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
Maybe, But still incredibly cheap for a teen looking to drunk. 1.75 Liters of vodka is $8.99 at the corner store. That will get 20 kids puking drunk for the price of a hamburger.

dfxm12 2y ago

There are probably many/a combination of reasons. One thing I think that hasn't been brought up in this thread yet is a smaller amount of popular media portraying marijuana use in a tolerable light. In terms of movies, how few and far between are big weed movies? Was the last one Pineapple Express, 15 years ago? Go back a few decades and there were a bunch of big movies, songs, etc. year after year about smoking weed.

dyauspitr 2y ago

The standard answer to this is teens are spending a significant amount of their time on social media which ends up replacing these other vices.

thescriptkiddie 2y ago

it kinda seems to me like teenagers are abstaining from behaviors altogether, not just risky ones. possible explanations that come to mind are widespread anhedonia (depression) and the the fact that suburban kids who are too young to drive can't leave their homes without their parents.

Auracle 2y ago

As someone who just quit doing high school senior photography last year I think it’s a lot more simple: They don’t have time. I can’t tell you how incredibly hard it is to schedule (and especially reschedule) sessions with many of them. A lot of kids always have some sport or other after school activity going on. Those sports often have training before the school day, after the school day, with actual competitions or more training on weekends. Oh, and summer is no exception. Combine that with loads of homework and they’re being run ragged.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
That rings true. I chalk that up into "lack of autonomy" category. I feel like modern kids have their life path set out on steel rails. The whole system is set up to see who can grind away hardest so that someday they can be an obedient and hard working corporate cog. In the 90's and early 00's, we didn't even have homework and could get into top tier colleges. The kids in my family are now doing 4 hours of busywork a day. The incentives of education today care very little about talent and are one big struggle session.
ErigmolCt 2y ago
How demanding high school life can be these days...

mr_toad 2y ago

I see a lot of influencers and the like pushing a lot of dumb stuff online - but they aren’t pushing drugs and alcohol.

portaouflop 2y ago
Because it’s not legal…

ErigmolCt 2y ago

It could be influenced by increased awareness of risks...