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I just applied for a job at noaa after being asked by a director to apply for the job which was directly related to updating the core weather modelling librarie

I just applied for a job at noaa after being asked by a director to apply for the job which was directly related to updating the core weather modelling libraries, some of which are 50+ years old Fortran, and also develop projects to integrate modern ai/ml into the modelling pipeline. I have 10+ years of experience working both as a researcher and a developer, a PhD in physics, and have won multiple grants either applying machine learning to geophysics problems or develop Bayesian spatiotemporal modeling libraries. At least on paper, I should get an interview for this job. I was rejected because: > We are not able to determine your qualifications as your resume does not show complete information for each job entry, such as beginning and ending dates of employment, duties performed, and/or total hours worked per week First, my cv did include everything but the total hours worked per week. Second there was no instruction that I could find for writing my CV such that I needed to list the number of hours worked per week. Third there was no way to contest this. Even the person who invited me to apply who would be the hiring manager had no control over this. I can tell you, this assuredly leads to the unnecessary decline of any system when there’s an impenetrable hr system sitting between applicants and jobs.

deleted 2y ago
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brudgers 2y ago
Because NOAA is part of the Federal government, expect job applications to be inspected technically detailed relative to compliance with a mountain of Federal statutes and regulations. Because people who don't get hired can literally get their Congressional and Senate representatives involved. This makes getting hired into the Civil Service hard. Internal candidates are usually at an advantage. Veterans always are.
- mnky9800n 2y ago
  I’m currently a civil servant of Norway. They seem to have it figured out. Haha. But yeah I get you.
- warner25 2y ago
  > Internal candidates are usually at an advantage. Veterans always are. The system is as you described. Internal candidates already know it and veterans, when transitioning out of uniformed service, get a full-blown class on it: how to prepare their "Federal resume" (which is unlike any resume that a reasonable person might otherwise prepare) and navigate the hiring process. So it's that on top of already having relevant experience and credentials or preference points. I've been on the hiring side for Federal GS positions, and I'll tell you that it can be just as frustrating on that side too.
rookderby 2y ago
That sucks. Did NOAA have their own application site or did you go through USAJOBs? I would recommend to you or others reading this that if you're applying through USAJOBs, then make sure to enter your resume information in the USAJobs resume builder to help prevent bureaucratic failures like this. HR probably didn't know what they were reading or weren't able to read your CV; they probably based their decision off of the USAJobs resume. https://help.test.usajobs.gov/how-to/account/documents/resume/build https://help.test.usajobs.gov/how-to/account/documents/resum...
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lordgrenville 2y ago
That's crazy. Why would the number of hours worked per week ever possibly be relevant to a hiring process? At most they might ask "full-time/part-time/other" or something like that.
- sampo 2y ago
  I am sure somebody somewhere has tried to claim having had an academic position at a university, while actually they were working at 4 hours per week as a teaching assistant for one course.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- stackskipton 2y ago
  Because Full-Time/Part-Time/Other is too imprecise for government. What if you consider full time is 25 hours because you were going to school? Well, you worked less on something but claim to have same experience at someone who worked 40. Government has to comply with all these standards and by asking for hours, they can make sure themselves that someone meets them.
add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
Yeah, I nope out of any application that requires manual entry of each employer etc.
- mnky9800n 2y ago
  Yeah it always makes me feel like they are going to be more than happy to waste my time since they waste their own with such things.
toast0 2y ago
Wait, they asked for a resume and you provided a CV. Gonna have a hard time when you start on the wrong foot with government work ;p
- dylan604 2y ago
  I was waiting for the classic in triplicate req wasn't followed.
bee_rider 2y ago
This is doubly stupid for an organization that would probably want to hire people right out of grad school, right? Where the hours are all day and the contracts are for however much the program has laying around at the moment.
deleted 2y ago
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concerndc1tizen 2y ago
A simple explanation is: corruption. HR in companies has changed radically in recent years. If you throw away your assumptions, and solely look at the behaviors that the function exhibits, you will find striking resemblance to the behaviors under communism, or fascism. Money has no value any more. Power is the only currency. To the public, they are strictly compliant, but the tools, such as the CV, the interview process, feedback, approval process, and so on, are irrational to anyone involved, except the true decision makers. Their objective is not no longer meritocratic, to hire the best qualified or best performing, but to hire people that strengthen the political power of those that already wield it. It's more than nepotism, it's empire building.
- BobaFloutist 2y ago
  > Money has no value any more. Power is the only currency. Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
  - selimthegrim 2y ago
    Thank you, Homer.
- mnky9800n 2y ago
  I feel like the opposite is true. Money is all that matters because it seems like everyone has a price.
  - concerndc1tizen 2y ago
    It's not the money that has value, but what money can be exchanged for. If your money can't buy you admission into university, or property that is sold off-market and privately, or access to off-market and privately controlled jobs, and so on, then your money doesn't help you at all. Power is the real currency in an unfree market. As in communism.
resize2996 2y ago
What did the director who asked you to apply say when you told them?
- mnky9800n 2y ago
  They said to follow the guidelines for writing your CV that are posted in the job ad. So I did.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

brudgers 2y ago

Because NOAA is part of the Federal government, expect job applications to be inspected technically detailed relative to compliance with a mountain of Federal statutes and regulations. Because people who don't get hired can literally get their Congressional and Senate representatives involved. This makes getting hired into the Civil Service hard. Internal candidates are usually at an advantage. Veterans always are.

mnky9800n 2y ago
I’m currently a civil servant of Norway. They seem to have it figured out. Haha. But yeah I get you.
warner25 2y ago
> Internal candidates are usually at an advantage. Veterans always are. The system is as you described. Internal candidates already know it and veterans, when transitioning out of uniformed service, get a full-blown class on it: how to prepare their "Federal resume" (which is unlike any resume that a reasonable person might otherwise prepare) and navigate the hiring process. So it's that on top of already having relevant experience and credentials or preference points. I've been on the hiring side for Federal GS positions, and I'll tell you that it can be just as frustrating on that side too.

rookderby 2y ago

That sucks. Did NOAA have their own application site or did you go through USAJOBs? I would recommend to you or others reading this that if you're applying through USAJOBs, then make sure to enter your resume information in the USAJobs resume builder to help prevent bureaucratic failures like this. HR probably didn't know what they were reading or weren't able to read your CV; they probably based their decision off of the USAJobs resume. https://help.test.usajobs.gov/how-to/account/documents/resume/build https://help.test.usajobs.gov/how-to/account/documents/resum...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

lordgrenville 2y ago

That's crazy. Why would the number of hours worked per week ever possibly be relevant to a hiring process? At most they might ask "full-time/part-time/other" or something like that.

sampo 2y ago
I am sure somebody somewhere has tried to claim having had an academic position at a university, while actually they were working at 4 hours per week as a teaching assistant for one course.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
stackskipton 2y ago
Because Full-Time/Part-Time/Other is too imprecise for government. What if you consider full time is 25 hours because you were going to school? Well, you worked less on something but claim to have same experience at someone who worked 40. Government has to comply with all these standards and by asking for hours, they can make sure themselves that someone meets them.

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago

Yeah, I nope out of any application that requires manual entry of each employer etc.

mnky9800n 2y ago
Yeah it always makes me feel like they are going to be more than happy to waste my time since they waste their own with such things.

toast0 2y ago

Wait, they asked for a resume and you provided a CV. Gonna have a hard time when you start on the wrong foot with government work ;p

dylan604 2y ago
I was waiting for the classic in triplicate req wasn't followed.

bee_rider 2y ago

This is doubly stupid for an organization that would probably want to hire people right out of grad school, right? Where the hours are all day and the contracts are for however much the program has laying around at the moment.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

concerndc1tizen 2y ago

A simple explanation is: corruption. HR in companies has changed radically in recent years. If you throw away your assumptions, and solely look at the behaviors that the function exhibits, you will find striking resemblance to the behaviors under communism, or fascism. Money has no value any more. Power is the only currency. To the public, they are strictly compliant, but the tools, such as the CV, the interview process, feedback, approval process, and so on, are irrational to anyone involved, except the true decision makers. Their objective is not no longer meritocratic, to hire the best qualified or best performing, but to hire people that strengthen the political power of those that already wield it. It's more than nepotism, it's empire building.

BobaFloutist 2y ago
> Money has no value any more. Power is the only currency. Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  Thank you, Homer.
mnky9800n 2y ago
I feel like the opposite is true. Money is all that matters because it seems like everyone has a price.
- concerndc1tizen 2y ago
  It's not the money that has value, but what money can be exchanged for. If your money can't buy you admission into university, or property that is sold off-market and privately, or access to off-market and privately controlled jobs, and so on, then your money doesn't help you at all. Power is the real currency in an unfree market. As in communism.

resize2996 2y ago

What did the director who asked you to apply say when you told them?

mnky9800n 2y ago
They said to follow the guidelines for writing your CV that are posted in the job ad. So I did.