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I think in the future, descendants of today's LLM models and some future version of Tesla's Optimus could create a paradigm shift in how care is given. I'm hop

I think in the future, descendants of today's LLM models and some future version of Tesla's Optimus could create a paradigm shift in how care is given. I'm hopeful that when I get old, and inevitably come to need some help with living, that such a solution will be available.

davidclark 2y ago
This hypothetical bot can provide supportive actions - feeding, cleaning - but it can’t provide "care" in the way that people truly need.
Eisenstein 2y ago
I would like the option to die painlessly before I end up needing a robot to change my diaper.
- alamortsubite 2y ago
  > I would like the option to die painlessly before I end up needing a robot to change my diaper. My dad has Parkinson's and needs a human to change his diaper. If he had the option of a robot, I bet he'd take it. Not a painless die now option, though. As I write, where he is it's 8 o'clock in the morning and he's watching an old Larry David and eating an ice cream cone while my mom gets ready for them to go to breakfast.
  - jen20 2y ago
    That’s the idea of an option. Great if it works for him, but having spent a lot of time with Pieter Hintjens (of AMQP and ZeroMQ fame) before he chose the time of his own passing from recurrent cancer, the notion that this is not allowed in order to appease religious zealots is simply barbaric.
    - alamortsubite 2y ago
      I'm not sure you replied to the right post, but religious zealots don't watch Larry David.
      - jen20 2y ago
        Indeed: but the kind of people that prevent individuals from having the option to die as and when they see fit tend to be.
worldsayshi 2y ago
Let's then hope that the LLM solution is FOSS so that relatives and the one being cared for can be in control of the service and avoid enshittification.
HKH2 2y ago
Exoskeletons should be able to help old people balance etc.
moolcool 2y ago
I think this is a gross and psychopathic vision of the future. Tell your grandmother that you're going to automate away her need for human connection. What a terrible indignity. I hate my industry.
- taylorius 2y ago
  Psychopathic? I think that's a ridiculous statement. No-one said anything about automating any human connection. I can tell you that my wife is a full time carer for her parents, and though she does it willingly and with love, it exerts a great toll on her, both physically, and mentally. So if we're going to far-too-easily use words like "psychopathic" - I could just as well say that ignoring that cost is psychopathic. Knowing what her role as a carer has cost her in terms of quality of life, I would never want to subject my children to the same. That is entirely different to maintaining human connection with older relatives.
  - moolcool 2y ago
    > No-one said anything about automating any human connection Maybe I was inferring the wrong thing, and if so I apologize, but the context of this comment was invoking LLMs and humanoid robots in a discussion about how "care doesn't scale". Like of course automation and technology should do things to make the lives of the elderly easier, but I would not classify any action done by a machine as "care". My dishwasher is a great convenience, but I would never classify my relationship with it as one of "caring". > Knowing what her role as a carer has cost her in terms of quality of life, I would never want to subject my children to the same Of course that's a problem. The answer though, IMO, is creating a society where we value elder care more, and have more programs to provide human support and connection to the elderly. I strongly feel like this isn't something which we can or should automate away.
    - taylorius 2y ago
      Perhaps it is a question of the different meanings the word care can take. Care in its normal everyday usage is indeed a natural human emotion, however this was not the subject of my post. "Carers", are people who perform functions for people unable to do them themselves. Whether they "care" or not for their charges is not directly relevant (though often they are relatives, and certainly do care for, and love the people they are helping very much). Not always though - consider a "care home", which is essentially a dumping ground for the old and inconveniently frail. Having seen the inside of a few such places, I very much do not want to end up in one. Enter the Robots, and technologies such as the LLM. In my imagination, a robot equipped with some facility with language, could act as an assistant for an elderly person, allowing them to maintain their independence for much longer without a human carer. This is not a replacement for human connection with their loved ones, but it is a replacement for putting them in a care home, or having ones own children spend part of their lives unable to have a job, or a normal social life, due to complex care requirements of some relative. For what its worth, I doubt we disagree too much, I think it was a misunderstanding. However I'm interest to hear your thoughts.

davidclark 2y ago

This hypothetical bot can provide supportive actions - feeding, cleaning - but it can’t provide "care" in the way that people truly need.

Eisenstein 2y ago

I would like the option to die painlessly before I end up needing a robot to change my diaper.

alamortsubite 2y ago
> I would like the option to die painlessly before I end up needing a robot to change my diaper. My dad has Parkinson's and needs a human to change his diaper. If he had the option of a robot, I bet he'd take it. Not a painless die now option, though. As I write, where he is it's 8 o'clock in the morning and he's watching an old Larry David and eating an ice cream cone while my mom gets ready for them to go to breakfast.
- jen20 2y ago
  That’s the idea of an option. Great if it works for him, but having spent a lot of time with Pieter Hintjens (of AMQP and ZeroMQ fame) before he chose the time of his own passing from recurrent cancer, the notion that this is not allowed in order to appease religious zealots is simply barbaric.
  - alamortsubite 2y ago
    I'm not sure you replied to the right post, but religious zealots don't watch Larry David.
    - jen20 2y ago
      Indeed: but the kind of people that prevent individuals from having the option to die as and when they see fit tend to be.

worldsayshi 2y ago

Let's then hope that the LLM solution is FOSS so that relatives and the one being cared for can be in control of the service and avoid enshittification.

HKH2 2y ago

Exoskeletons should be able to help old people balance etc.

moolcool 2y ago

I think this is a gross and psychopathic vision of the future. Tell your grandmother that you're going to automate away her need for human connection. What a terrible indignity. I hate my industry.

taylorius 2y ago
Psychopathic? I think that's a ridiculous statement. No-one said anything about automating any human connection. I can tell you that my wife is a full time carer for her parents, and though she does it willingly and with love, it exerts a great toll on her, both physically, and mentally. So if we're going to far-too-easily use words like "psychopathic" - I could just as well say that ignoring that cost is psychopathic. Knowing what her role as a carer has cost her in terms of quality of life, I would never want to subject my children to the same. That is entirely different to maintaining human connection with older relatives.
- moolcool 2y ago
  > No-one said anything about automating any human connection Maybe I was inferring the wrong thing, and if so I apologize, but the context of this comment was invoking LLMs and humanoid robots in a discussion about how "care doesn't scale". Like of course automation and technology should do things to make the lives of the elderly easier, but I would not classify any action done by a machine as "care". My dishwasher is a great convenience, but I would never classify my relationship with it as one of "caring". > Knowing what her role as a carer has cost her in terms of quality of life, I would never want to subject my children to the same Of course that's a problem. The answer though, IMO, is creating a society where we value elder care more, and have more programs to provide human support and connection to the elderly. I strongly feel like this isn't something which we can or should automate away.
  - taylorius 2y ago
    Perhaps it is a question of the different meanings the word care can take. Care in its normal everyday usage is indeed a natural human emotion, however this was not the subject of my post. "Carers", are people who perform functions for people unable to do them themselves. Whether they "care" or not for their charges is not directly relevant (though often they are relatives, and certainly do care for, and love the people they are helping very much). Not always though - consider a "care home", which is essentially a dumping ground for the old and inconveniently frail. Having seen the inside of a few such places, I very much do not want to end up in one. Enter the Robots, and technologies such as the LLM. In my imagination, a robot equipped with some facility with language, could act as an assistant for an elderly person, allowing them to maintain their independence for much longer without a human carer. This is not a replacement for human connection with their loved ones, but it is a replacement for putting them in a care home, or having ones own children spend part of their lives unable to have a job, or a normal social life, due to complex care requirements of some relative. For what its worth, I doubt we disagree too much, I think it was a misunderstanding. However I'm interest to hear your thoughts.