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“ As of the end of 2023, Opera Software was 72.4% owned by Kunlun, a Chinese public company, making it a subsidiary of that company. Opera CEO James Yahui Zhou

by cebert 2y ago

“ As of the end of 2023, Opera Software was 72.4% owned by Kunlun, a Chinese public company, making it a subsidiary of that company. Opera CEO James Yahui Zhou is a controlling shareholder in Kunlun.” [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser)]

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
[flagged]
- cebert 2y ago
  I don’t personally want a browser, which is such an important element of my personal and professional life, owned by a Chinese company. Additional, Opera isn’t fully open source. I also don’t trust Google.
  - zztop44 2y ago
    I’m curious, what’s the rationale for this? Is it corporate espionage? Or do you live in China/have family there and engage in online activity that might cause problems?
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      You don't need to live in China or have family there to be worried about China: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-arrested-operating-illegal-overseas-police-station-chinese-government https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-arrested-operating-illega... People should avoid giving more data to China out of sheer principle, regardless of their personal attachment to China.
      - doctor_radium 2y ago
        Agreed, and I know Opera is Chinese-owned, but Opera's web site still lists their headquarters as Norway. Doesn't this still make them a Norwegian company, with some safeguards against abuse? Not sure if any EU laws might also come into play.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Doesn't this still make them a Norwegian company No. It's a Chinese company with an office in Oslo (in addition to China) [1]. Had they run it as an independent subsidiary there might have been a claim that it remains Norwegian. But they haven't and so it isn't. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(company)#Acquisition_and_second_IPO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(company)#Acquisition_an...
        llamaimperative 2y ago
        I think foreign intelligence services are perfectly comfortable "navigating" laws. Obviously every company is vulnerable to this, but it sure is preferable not to have ownership concentrated in a country where all corporations are de facto extensions of the state itself.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > People should avoid giving more data to China out of sheer principle Or self preservation. Every intelligence agency collects blackmail. The obvious targets are those in high office. But sometimes you need disposable randos to e.g. collect intelligence or place assets. Being able to pass blackmail to an operative who can use it to convince e.g. a farmer to give them pictures of a silo or Air Force base (under the guise of commercial espionage for a domestic competitor or whatever) is valuable.
    - Tadpole9181 2y ago
      You don't have to live in China for Chinese surveillance to be undesirable or even harmful. The Chinese government has made great strides, but they are still a corrupt governing body completely outside our control. I already don't want the US government to spy on me, and I actually have ways of being compensated for damages they do, let alone a government with diametrically opposed ideology and active campaigns to harm Western interests.
    - halJordan 2y ago
      This is a charged topic when it's an American disclaiming Chinese tech. But the Europeans have been targeting American tech for a decade now. Whatever reasons you accept from the Europeans about why Facebook/Instagram is unacceptable are the ones you should apply here.
- Sakos 2y ago
  Nobody said anything about people looking or talking different. The defining features of the Chinese government, such as its authoritarian nature and its values that are completely opposed to most Western values, have nothing to do with these two things.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- rasz 2y ago
  There you go https://qz.com/africa/1788351/operas-okash-opesas-predatory-lending-in-nigeria-india-kenya https://qz.com/africa/1788351/operas-okash-opesas-predatory-... >A Chinese super app is facing claims of predatory consumer lending in Nigeria, Kenya and India https://hindenburgresearch.com/opera-phantom-of-the-turnaround/ https://hindenburgresearch.com/opera-phantom-of-the-turnarou... >The group’s largest investor and current Opera Chairman/CEO was recently involved in a Chinese lending business that listed in the U.S. and saw its shares plunge more than 80% in just 2 years amid allegations of fraud and illegal lending practices. >Post IPO, Opera has now also made a similar and dramatic pivot into predatory short-term loans in Africa and India, deploying deceptive ‘bait and switch’ tactics to lure in borrowers and charging egregious interest rates ranging from ~365-876%.
  - zztop44 2y ago
    This seems like a much better reason to be suspicious of Opera.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > because they look and talk different You’re complaining about “passive aggressive crap” while falsely insinuating OP is racist? The problem they cite is Opera is Chinese. Not that the people involved are ethnically Chinese.

by cebert 2y ago

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago

[flagged]

cebert 2y ago
I don’t personally want a browser, which is such an important element of my personal and professional life, owned by a Chinese company. Additional, Opera isn’t fully open source. I also don’t trust Google.
- zztop44 2y ago
  I’m curious, what’s the rationale for this? Is it corporate espionage? Or do you live in China/have family there and engage in online activity that might cause problems?
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    You don't need to live in China or have family there to be worried about China: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-arrested-operating-illegal-overseas-police-station-chinese-government https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-arrested-operating-illega... People should avoid giving more data to China out of sheer principle, regardless of their personal attachment to China.
    - doctor_radium 2y ago
      Agreed, and I know Opera is Chinese-owned, but Opera's web site still lists their headquarters as Norway. Doesn't this still make them a Norwegian company, with some safeguards against abuse? Not sure if any EU laws might also come into play.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Doesn't this still make them a Norwegian company No. It's a Chinese company with an office in Oslo (in addition to China) [1]. Had they run it as an independent subsidiary there might have been a claim that it remains Norwegian. But they haven't and so it isn't. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(company)#Acquisition_and_second_IPO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(company)#Acquisition_an...
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
        I think foreign intelligence services are perfectly comfortable "navigating" laws. Obviously every company is vulnerable to this, but it sure is preferable not to have ownership concentrated in a country where all corporations are de facto extensions of the state itself.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > People should avoid giving more data to China out of sheer principle Or self preservation. Every intelligence agency collects blackmail. The obvious targets are those in high office. But sometimes you need disposable randos to e.g. collect intelligence or place assets. Being able to pass blackmail to an operative who can use it to convince e.g. a farmer to give them pictures of a silo or Air Force base (under the guise of commercial espionage for a domestic competitor or whatever) is valuable.
  - Tadpole9181 2y ago
    You don't have to live in China for Chinese surveillance to be undesirable or even harmful. The Chinese government has made great strides, but they are still a corrupt governing body completely outside our control. I already don't want the US government to spy on me, and I actually have ways of being compensated for damages they do, let alone a government with diametrically opposed ideology and active campaigns to harm Western interests.
  - halJordan 2y ago
    This is a charged topic when it's an American disclaiming Chinese tech. But the Europeans have been targeting American tech for a decade now. Whatever reasons you accept from the Europeans about why Facebook/Instagram is unacceptable are the ones you should apply here.
Sakos 2y ago
Nobody said anything about people looking or talking different. The defining features of the Chinese government, such as its authoritarian nature and its values that are completely opposed to most Western values, have nothing to do with these two things.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
rasz 2y ago
There you go https://qz.com/africa/1788351/operas-okash-opesas-predatory-lending-in-nigeria-india-kenya https://qz.com/africa/1788351/operas-okash-opesas-predatory-... >A Chinese super app is facing claims of predatory consumer lending in Nigeria, Kenya and India https://hindenburgresearch.com/opera-phantom-of-the-turnaround/ https://hindenburgresearch.com/opera-phantom-of-the-turnarou... >The group’s largest investor and current Opera Chairman/CEO was recently involved in a Chinese lending business that listed in the U.S. and saw its shares plunge more than 80% in just 2 years amid allegations of fraud and illegal lending practices. >Post IPO, Opera has now also made a similar and dramatic pivot into predatory short-term loans in Africa and India, deploying deceptive ‘bait and switch’ tactics to lure in borrowers and charging egregious interest rates ranging from ~365-876%.
- zztop44 2y ago
  This seems like a much better reason to be suspicious of Opera.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> because they look and talk different You’re complaining about “passive aggressive crap” while falsely insinuating OP is racist? The problem they cite is Opera is Chinese. Not that the people involved are ethnically Chinese.