5 ms·

This whole "supporting browsers" thing should be gone, and very soon. There are specifications that browser makers should follow, and if they are all supportin

This whole "supporting browsers" thing should be gone, and very soon. There are specifications that browser makers should follow, and if they are all supporting those specifications, then they well be well-supported. The only differentiator between page rendering among browsers should really be speed. (I believe Opera is actually one of the browsers that adheres most closely to the specs.)

ta12121 14y ago
LOL Opera is the browser that adheres to the specifications most closely, and yet it is the least usable. Why? Because web developers don't test with it. Specs are irrelevant. Testing is relevant, and testing is caused by marketshare.
- manojlds 14y ago
  It is a chicken and egg case, right? Without support, no increase in market share, and no market share means, no support. Hence it is sad that a big player like Google does this, in an apparent act of getting more people on to Chrome. If Google does no evil, they will support ( we all know they can ) the most standards compliant browser.
  - methodin 14y ago
    Opera was at 4% last time I checked. Has that changed? If not, I find it hard to believe that's the motive.
    - unreal37 14y ago
      It has. Their market share was at 2% at the beginning of this year, and has now fallen to 1.7%. It's falling month after month. There's no reason to expect their market share will increase any time soon.
- el_presidente 14y ago
  Yeah, Google's reverse image search is unusable with Opera... unless you change the user agent string and tell Google you're using Firefox. Then they whine about how Facebook and Apple are trying to destroy the open web.
  - okamiueru 14y ago
    Quick tip: On images.google.com, go to 'Quick preferences' (either F12 or right click on the page), hit 'Edit site preference', then set the user agent under the 'Network' tab. I'm tempted to do this for all google related services, because they are such browser prudes.
- Xcelerate 14y ago
  You are saying "is". I am saying "should".
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
tomjen3 14y ago
That would be lovely, but as long as IE is as far behind as they are (and at work we don't even run on less than ie 9, which is still horrible) and, crucially, don't force their users to only use the newest version. That will never happen. The web will be limited to what works in modern browsers, regardless of standards, and IE, 2-3 versions back.
vetler 14y ago
Adhering to the specs used to be top priority, until the idea that actually making the Internet work got critical mass internally. The problem was that you don't get a lot of users if all you do is point the finger at the other browsers, you have to actually show the pages that people have created. Now they even have features like Browserjs for automatically fixing web pages to work in Opera: http://www.opera.com/docs/browserjs/ http://www.opera.com/docs/browserjs/ You don't even need to upgrade Opera! Quite clever. It's even open source: https://github.com/operasoftware/browserjs/ https://github.com/operasoftware/browserjs/
rimantas 14y ago
However, Opera scores 338+9 on html5test.com while Chrome gets 414+13.
- ernesth 14y ago
  > Opera scores 338+9 385+9 to be precise (and 400+9 for me).
luriel 14y ago
> This whole "supporting browsers" thing should be gone, and very soon. There are specifications that browser makers should follow, and if they are all supporting those specifications, then they well be well-supported. The problem is that those specifications have become so insanely complex that it has become impossible to either write them without any ambiguities or to implement them without any bugs. Hell, most of those "specifications" wont be fully finished for years to come, and the implementations wont be feature complete for years either, and still, whole new specifications are huge sets of features keep being added all the time (WebGL, I'm looking at you, but there are more coming) before the existing ones can work well.

ta12121 14y ago

LOL Opera is the browser that adheres to the specifications most closely, and yet it is the least usable. Why? Because web developers don't test with it. Specs are irrelevant. Testing is relevant, and testing is caused by marketshare.

manojlds 14y ago
It is a chicken and egg case, right? Without support, no increase in market share, and no market share means, no support. Hence it is sad that a big player like Google does this, in an apparent act of getting more people on to Chrome. If Google does no evil, they will support ( we all know they can ) the most standards compliant browser.
- methodin 14y ago
  Opera was at 4% last time I checked. Has that changed? If not, I find it hard to believe that's the motive.
  - unreal37 14y ago
    It has. Their market share was at 2% at the beginning of this year, and has now fallen to 1.7%. It's falling month after month. There's no reason to expect their market share will increase any time soon.
el_presidente 14y ago
Yeah, Google's reverse image search is unusable with Opera... unless you change the user agent string and tell Google you're using Firefox. Then they whine about how Facebook and Apple are trying to destroy the open web.
- okamiueru 14y ago
  Quick tip: On images.google.com, go to 'Quick preferences' (either F12 or right click on the page), hit 'Edit site preference', then set the user agent under the 'Network' tab. I'm tempted to do this for all google related services, because they are such browser prudes.
Xcelerate 14y ago
You are saying "is". I am saying "should".
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

tomjen3 14y ago

That would be lovely, but as long as IE is as far behind as they are (and at work we don't even run on less than ie 9, which is still horrible) and, crucially, don't force their users to only use the newest version. That will never happen. The web will be limited to what works in modern browsers, regardless of standards, and IE, 2-3 versions back.

vetler 14y ago

Adhering to the specs used to be top priority, until the idea that actually making the Internet work got critical mass internally. The problem was that you don't get a lot of users if all you do is point the finger at the other browsers, you have to actually show the pages that people have created. Now they even have features like Browserjs for automatically fixing web pages to work in Opera: http://www.opera.com/docs/browserjs/ http://www.opera.com/docs/browserjs/ You don't even need to upgrade Opera! Quite clever. It's even open source: https://github.com/operasoftware/browserjs/ https://github.com/operasoftware/browserjs/

rimantas 14y ago

However, Opera scores 338+9 on html5test.com while Chrome gets 414+13.

ernesth 14y ago
> Opera scores 338+9 385+9 to be precise (and 400+9 for me).

luriel 14y ago

> This whole "supporting browsers" thing should be gone, and very soon. There are specifications that browser makers should follow, and if they are all supporting those specifications, then they well be well-supported. The problem is that those specifications have become so insanely complex that it has become impossible to either write them without any ambiguities or to implement them without any bugs. Hell, most of those "specifications" wont be fully finished for years to come, and the implementations wont be feature complete for years either, and still, whole new specifications are huge sets of features keep being added all the time (WebGL, I'm looking at you, but there are more coming) before the existing ones can work well.