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It wasn't the lack of water that made Florida inhospitable, it was the climate. Florida's population explosion precisely coincides with the adoption of air cond

It wasn't the lack of water that made Florida inhospitable, it was the climate. Florida's population explosion precisely coincides with the adoption of air conditioning in American households, in the post-war period[1]. Very few people want to live in a place where it's so hot and humid all the time. > During the last ice age, only 10,000 years ago We're still in an ice age. An ice age is simply when the earth's poles have an ice cover. [1] - https://countrydigest.org/florida-population/ https://countrydigest.org/florida-population/

jefftk 2y ago
> An ice age is simply when the earth's poles have an ice cover. Are you sure? I'm not seeing that definition anywhere, and it looks like even in interglacial periods there's permanent ice in both hemispheres: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#Glacials_and_interglacials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#Glacials_and_interglac...
- johnnyjeans 2y ago
  Interglacial periods are a part of ice ages. Even tells you right at the beginning of that article. > Individual pulses of cold climate within an ice age are termed glacial periods (glacials, glaciations, glacial stages, stadials, stades, or colloquially, ice ages), and intermittent warm periods within an ice age are called interglacials or interstadials. You can actually see the definition (albeit a little verbose) as the first sentence of that article: > An ice age is a long period of reduction in the temperature of Earth's surface and atmosphere, resulting in the presence or expansion of continental and polar ice sheets and alpine glaciers. On a technicality, you can get me for not mentioning the snow capped mountains part, I'd concede on that. That part is actually news to me. All the same, the earth is colder than it usually is. [1] An interesting thing I like to bounce around in my head: Could we live in the interior of the Pangean super continent if we had to? Interesting stepping stone between Earth's current, very mild climate, and trying to live in a place like Venus. Definitely would have to live like mole people. [1] - https://www.climate.gov/media/11332 https://www.climate.gov/media/11332
  - jefftk 2y ago
    Mmm, looks like you're right. Sorry!
    - johnnyjeans 2y ago
      No worries. It's not commonly known! For as important as it's become to talk about the climate, the brass tacks remain pretty esoteric.
  - nine_k 2y ago
    > Could we live in the interior of the Pangean super continent We already avoid living in the interior of Australia, because living at temperatures of +50°C is just not very compatible with having body temperature slightly below +37°C. Same applies to the middle of Sahara desert. It's not impossible though, because the humidity is very low there, so, given a supply of water, you can cool by evaporation. At high humidity. you'd just die; such things happen during heat waves on the Indian subcontinent, for example.
    - samatman 2y ago
      People certainly die during heat waves, on the Subcontinent and elsewhere. High heat at high humidity is dangerous to endure. However, there is no historical record of the wet bulb temperature outdoors exceeding human body temperature, anywhere, ever. So far. Which is what it would take for the human body to be unable to remove excess heat in any fashion.
      - ordinaryradical 2y ago
        See also: chapter one of Kim Stanley Robinson’s The Ministry for the Future.
      - relaxing 2y ago
        > However, there is no historical record of the wet bulb temperature outdoors That’s not really saying much. The historical record is vanishingly small.
- nosianu 2y ago
  I will not argue about definitions of terms, but there was a recent study that I found linked on washingtonpost.com I believe (Edit: found, added). WP article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/09/19/earth-temperature-global-warming-planet/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/09/1... (https://archive.md/RM8ez https://archive.md/RM8ez) > ...humans evolved during the coldest epoch of the Phanerozoic [the time period from 540 million years ago to the present], when global average temperatures were as low as 51.8 F (11 C). > “We built our civilization around those geologic landscapes of an icehouse,” Judd [one of the study's authors] said. Study (restricted): "A 485-million-year history of Earth’s surface temperature" -- https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adk3705 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adk3705 > Partitioning the reconstruction into climate states indicates that more time was spent in warmer rather than colder climates Look at the graph - our time is on the very right. We humans developed and are still living in unusually cold times for this planet, historically.
alehlopeh 2y ago
The problem with South Florida is that it had too much water.
quickthrowman 2y ago
> Florida's population explosion precisely coincides with the adoption of air conditioning in American households This is also the case for Arizona, Phoenix in particular. Air conditioning is one of the great inventions of the 20th century, it’s up there with the airplane, antibiotics, transistor, and shipping container.
- kbutler 2y ago
  Especially if you include refrigeration for foods.
  - osigurdson 2y ago
    Absolutely agree. So far, the transistor (i.e. computation, internet, mobile, AI) has been less transformative than earlier breakthroughs like refrigeration, the automobile and the airplane.
    - dartos 2y ago
      Hard disagree. The internet has been WILDLY transformative. I mean look at what we’re doing right now on HN. IIRC Twitter was a big part of the Arab spring. Politics have been warped around it as most political discourse now takes place online. There are so many examples of society all over the world warping and changing due to comparatively unfettered access to global information. It’s crazy to say the internet wasn’t at least as transformative as automobiles or planes. Just because it didn’t directly change the physical world doesn’t mean is wasn’t transformative.
      - osigurdson 2y ago
        In my view politics is largely a sideshow compared to technological advancement as it is mostly about how to divide up the pie as opposed to growing it. While people can communicate various political ideas more freely, it actually doesn't matter than much unless the political situation gets bad enough that it leads to a dark age. Therefore technologies that merely make it easier to communicate political ideas are less impactful than technologies that directly improve life (e.g. most people would not trade their fridge for a Twitter account). Of course, I am glad that both exist.
nradov 2y ago
Air conditioning was huge, but surely mosquito control and the elimination of malaria also played a major role in making Florida habitable. People drained the swamps and sprayed enough poison to kill off at least most of the mosquitos.
skybrian 2y ago
He does mention that: > In Florida, a combination of development, drainage, and air conditioning created one of the most desirable cities on Earth from a previously pestilential swamp.
sidewndr46 2y ago
Coming from that part of the world, I'm relatively certain the elimination of malaria was the cause.

jefftk 2y ago

> An ice age is simply when the earth's poles have an ice cover. Are you sure? I'm not seeing that definition anywhere, and it looks like even in interglacial periods there's permanent ice in both hemispheres: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#Glacials_and_interglacials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#Glacials_and_interglac...

johnnyjeans 2y ago
Interglacial periods are a part of ice ages. Even tells you right at the beginning of that article. > Individual pulses of cold climate within an ice age are termed glacial periods (glacials, glaciations, glacial stages, stadials, stades, or colloquially, ice ages), and intermittent warm periods within an ice age are called interglacials or interstadials. You can actually see the definition (albeit a little verbose) as the first sentence of that article: > An ice age is a long period of reduction in the temperature of Earth's surface and atmosphere, resulting in the presence or expansion of continental and polar ice sheets and alpine glaciers. On a technicality, you can get me for not mentioning the snow capped mountains part, I'd concede on that. That part is actually news to me. All the same, the earth is colder than it usually is. [1] An interesting thing I like to bounce around in my head: Could we live in the interior of the Pangean super continent if we had to? Interesting stepping stone between Earth's current, very mild climate, and trying to live in a place like Venus. Definitely would have to live like mole people. [1] - https://www.climate.gov/media/11332 https://www.climate.gov/media/11332
- jefftk 2y ago
  Mmm, looks like you're right. Sorry!
  - johnnyjeans 2y ago
    No worries. It's not commonly known! For as important as it's become to talk about the climate, the brass tacks remain pretty esoteric.
- nine_k 2y ago
  > Could we live in the interior of the Pangean super continent We already avoid living in the interior of Australia, because living at temperatures of +50°C is just not very compatible with having body temperature slightly below +37°C. Same applies to the middle of Sahara desert. It's not impossible though, because the humidity is very low there, so, given a supply of water, you can cool by evaporation. At high humidity. you'd just die; such things happen during heat waves on the Indian subcontinent, for example.
  - samatman 2y ago
    People certainly die during heat waves, on the Subcontinent and elsewhere. High heat at high humidity is dangerous to endure. However, there is no historical record of the wet bulb temperature outdoors exceeding human body temperature, anywhere, ever. So far. Which is what it would take for the human body to be unable to remove excess heat in any fashion.
    - ordinaryradical 2y ago
      See also: chapter one of Kim Stanley Robinson’s The Ministry for the Future.
    - relaxing 2y ago
      > However, there is no historical record of the wet bulb temperature outdoors That’s not really saying much. The historical record is vanishingly small.
nosianu 2y ago
I will not argue about definitions of terms, but there was a recent study that I found linked on washingtonpost.com I believe (Edit: found, added). WP article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/09/19/earth-temperature-global-warming-planet/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/09/1... (https://archive.md/RM8ez https://archive.md/RM8ez) > ...humans evolved during the coldest epoch of the Phanerozoic [the time period from 540 million years ago to the present], when global average temperatures were as low as 51.8 F (11 C). > “We built our civilization around those geologic landscapes of an icehouse,” Judd [one of the study's authors] said. Study (restricted): "A 485-million-year history of Earth’s surface temperature" -- https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adk3705 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adk3705 > Partitioning the reconstruction into climate states indicates that more time was spent in warmer rather than colder climates Look at the graph - our time is on the very right. We humans developed and are still living in unusually cold times for this planet, historically.

alehlopeh 2y ago

The problem with South Florida is that it had too much water.

quickthrowman 2y ago

> Florida's population explosion precisely coincides with the adoption of air conditioning in American households This is also the case for Arizona, Phoenix in particular. Air conditioning is one of the great inventions of the 20th century, it’s up there with the airplane, antibiotics, transistor, and shipping container.

kbutler 2y ago
Especially if you include refrigeration for foods.
- osigurdson 2y ago
  Absolutely agree. So far, the transistor (i.e. computation, internet, mobile, AI) has been less transformative than earlier breakthroughs like refrigeration, the automobile and the airplane.
  - dartos 2y ago
    Hard disagree. The internet has been WILDLY transformative. I mean look at what we’re doing right now on HN. IIRC Twitter was a big part of the Arab spring. Politics have been warped around it as most political discourse now takes place online. There are so many examples of society all over the world warping and changing due to comparatively unfettered access to global information. It’s crazy to say the internet wasn’t at least as transformative as automobiles or planes. Just because it didn’t directly change the physical world doesn’t mean is wasn’t transformative.
    - osigurdson 2y ago
      In my view politics is largely a sideshow compared to technological advancement as it is mostly about how to divide up the pie as opposed to growing it. While people can communicate various political ideas more freely, it actually doesn't matter than much unless the political situation gets bad enough that it leads to a dark age. Therefore technologies that merely make it easier to communicate political ideas are less impactful than technologies that directly improve life (e.g. most people would not trade their fridge for a Twitter account). Of course, I am glad that both exist.

nradov 2y ago

Air conditioning was huge, but surely mosquito control and the elimination of malaria also played a major role in making Florida habitable. People drained the swamps and sprayed enough poison to kill off at least most of the mosquitos.

skybrian 2y ago

He does mention that: > In Florida, a combination of development, drainage, and air conditioning created one of the most desirable cities on Earth from a previously pestilential swamp.

sidewndr46 2y ago

Coming from that part of the world, I'm relatively certain the elimination of malaria was the cause.