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I would argue the defining factor of social media which separates it from blogs/forums/etc. is the ubiquitous feedback metrics, in the form of likes/downvotes/r

I would argue the defining factor of social media which separates it from blogs/forums/etc. is the ubiquitous feedback metrics, in the form of likes/downvotes/retweets/etc. Imagine attending party where whenever you finished a sentence, everyone who was listening immediately responded with a silent thumbs up / thumbs down in response. Pretty dystopian. The Onion did a sketch illustrating the problem a few years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFpK_r-jEXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFpK_r-jEXg By this definition, HN is halfway to being social media. There are metrics, but they aren't displayed publicly.

Apocryphon 2y ago
HN is simply pre-Web 2.0 social media, a la Slashdot, Metafilter, the WELL, kuro5hin, etc.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
  IIRC, the term "social media" came about with Facebook/Twitter/Youtube. Before that, we had forums/blogs/wikis. That was the sweet spot IMO. The days before things were constantly "going viral". Sometimes memetic speedbumps are a good thing.
  - Apocryphon 2y ago
    I agree with that, however I would consider large forums (especially those that arose after the rise of the Web- so not BBS- and those that were more than simply vBulletin/phpBB message boards) to be basically photo-social media, even if they predate the term and concept. I think we need more forums outside of mega-communities like Reddit or even HN, but at least there are many that are still alive: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41783682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41783682 Also, things were going viral even before the mid-'00s when the concept consolidated. All Your Base and Star Wars Kid went viral before it was called that, even if they garnered a fraction of the mindshare of the general public. Even that dancing CGI baby qualifies.
jolmg 2y ago
I never thought that votes, etc. would be that important to what defines social media and would have included forums in it. But if I think of social media as "that thing that's addicting", then yeah, the feedback metrics are what make it addicting. Otherwise, I would think of "social media" as places where visitors get the opportunity to be equal participants. Anyone can post, anyone can comment in places like these (including forums), but in a blog only one can post and the rest comment.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
  IMO, the popularity metrics are the cause of the Lord of the Flies dynamics you so often see on Reddit, X, etc. Popularity metrics facilitate popularity contests. And popularity metrics facilitate mob rule. Lone voices of dissent get steamrolled. Reddit is especially bad, IMO. It's almost like it was designed as a confirmation bias engine. The frustrating part is that voting systems also solve a genuine quality-filtering problem. HN does a good job of balancing the costs and benefits, but I suspect there are other viable approaches.

Apocryphon 2y ago

HN is simply pre-Web 2.0 social media, a la Slashdot, Metafilter, the WELL, kuro5hin, etc.

0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
IIRC, the term "social media" came about with Facebook/Twitter/Youtube. Before that, we had forums/blogs/wikis. That was the sweet spot IMO. The days before things were constantly "going viral". Sometimes memetic speedbumps are a good thing.
- Apocryphon 2y ago
  I agree with that, however I would consider large forums (especially those that arose after the rise of the Web- so not BBS- and those that were more than simply vBulletin/phpBB message boards) to be basically photo-social media, even if they predate the term and concept. I think we need more forums outside of mega-communities like Reddit or even HN, but at least there are many that are still alive: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41783682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41783682 Also, things were going viral even before the mid-'00s when the concept consolidated. All Your Base and Star Wars Kid went viral before it was called that, even if they garnered a fraction of the mindshare of the general public. Even that dancing CGI baby qualifies.

jolmg 2y ago

I never thought that votes, etc. would be that important to what defines social media and would have included forums in it. But if I think of social media as "that thing that's addicting", then yeah, the feedback metrics are what make it addicting. Otherwise, I would think of "social media" as places where visitors get the opportunity to be equal participants. Anyone can post, anyone can comment in places like these (including forums), but in a blog only one can post and the rest comment.

0xDEAFBEAD 2y ago
IMO, the popularity metrics are the cause of the Lord of the Flies dynamics you so often see on Reddit, X, etc. Popularity metrics facilitate popularity contests. And popularity metrics facilitate mob rule. Lone voices of dissent get steamrolled. Reddit is especially bad, IMO. It's almost like it was designed as a confirmation bias engine. The frustrating part is that voting systems also solve a genuine quality-filtering problem. HN does a good job of balancing the costs and benefits, but I suspect there are other viable approaches.