4 ms·

Actually you should take a look at Rider in that case. It’s about 120% of what VS on Windows is! I use it as my daily IDE for a production .NET back end. You wo

Actually you should take a look at Rider in that case. It’s about 120% of what VS on Windows is! I use it as my daily IDE for a production .NET back end. You won’t look back I promise.

madeofpalk 2y ago
It is embarrassing (for Microsoft) how much better Rider is for C# than Visual Studio.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  To this day there is now Visual C++ developer experience that is comparable to C++ Builder for GUI development, there was C++/CX for a while (C++/CLI depends on C# for the GUI part), but then it was killed by an internal riot that pushed for the ways of ATL and IDL in the form of C++/WinRT. C++/CX was deprecated and replaced by C++/WinRT in 2016. To this day, to develop WinUI C++ applications, there is no built-in tooling in VS, you need to manually generate and merge C++ code out of IDL files, which have zero support on Visual Studio for syntax highlighting and code completion, unless you reach out to some third party plugins. To top that, given the way things turned out, C++/WinRT is now in maintenance, no goals to ever move it past C++17, or improve Visual Studio developer experience. I doubt that they feel embarassed by this outcome.
  - memsom 2y ago
    I haven't touched C++ Builder since mid 2000's. Does it still rely on the VCL? That was always the criticism I heard at the time. The VCL was written in Pascal and no C++ developer liked that it was not C++. It constantly got flack for it. The VCL was good at the time, but Pascal is more akin to C# in the way it does inheritance, so no multiple inheritance was able to be done with VCL components IIRC.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      Yes and no, VCL is around, although it has been replaced by FireMonkey. Multiple inheritance in C++ is a can of worms, unless you're prepared to deal with the related issues of virtual base classes, and diamond inheritance. That is why after C++ all the languages that support multiple inheritance do so only at the interface level and not implementation code, or rather go with a mix-ins approach. And in regards to Microsoft world, well the same developers that weren't happy with VCL and Pascal, and in for a treat given that the only modern way to do native Windows UIs in Microsoft world is via .NET consuming DLLs/COM/WinRT, unless they want to either stick with MFC, or the outdated tooling in C++/WinRT.
      - memsom 2y ago
        Yeah, the VCL was the first UI framework I used. With regards to multiple inheritance, this was the C++ Builder criticism, not mine. That and the extra macros needed to support the VCL. I was a Delphi guy, so I appreciated that the Object Pascal version of using the VCL was cleaner to use than the C++ interface. We no longer use C++ for UI. Any native code is wrapped up in to P/Invokes. I think all of our MFC apps are EOL now. Everything is WPF or Maui for cross platform.
grujicd 2y ago
Can it open VS solution and project files?
- russelg 2y ago
  Of course it can, that's the baseline for a VS competitor lol
  - grujicd 2y ago
    Well VS Code can’t open sone of VS project types, more specifically it couldn’t open the one based on JS and JS build tools. I’ll check with Rider.
    - memsom 2y ago
      It depends on the platform. For example, Rider on Mac will not open vscproj/vcxproj files, because it doesn't support C++ really on non Windows. But I think that is mostly because it would need to use a different C++ compiler and that is non trivial. I would imagine it would also struggle with project types that are not normal (VS extensions, installer projects etc) and C++/CLI as that is not supported outside of Windows too (and I think uses the standard vsc[x]proj file format anyway...)
- urbandw311er 2y ago
  Yes, it can pretty much do everything you’d get in Visual Studio.
- memsom 2y ago
  The latest version can now even open SLNX files, which are the newest format that removes a lot of the stuff that makes VS Solution files painful to maintain in source control.

Actually you should take a look at Rider in that case. It’s about 120% of what VS on Windows is! I use it as my daily IDE for a production .NET back end. You won’t look back I promise.

madeofpalk 2y ago

It is embarrassing (for Microsoft) how much better Rider is for C# than Visual Studio.

pjmlp 2y ago
To this day there is now Visual C++ developer experience that is comparable to C++ Builder for GUI development, there was C++/CX for a while (C++/CLI depends on C# for the GUI part), but then it was killed by an internal riot that pushed for the ways of ATL and IDL in the form of C++/WinRT. C++/CX was deprecated and replaced by C++/WinRT in 2016. To this day, to develop WinUI C++ applications, there is no built-in tooling in VS, you need to manually generate and merge C++ code out of IDL files, which have zero support on Visual Studio for syntax highlighting and code completion, unless you reach out to some third party plugins. To top that, given the way things turned out, C++/WinRT is now in maintenance, no goals to ever move it past C++17, or improve Visual Studio developer experience. I doubt that they feel embarassed by this outcome.
- memsom 2y ago
  I haven't touched C++ Builder since mid 2000's. Does it still rely on the VCL? That was always the criticism I heard at the time. The VCL was written in Pascal and no C++ developer liked that it was not C++. It constantly got flack for it. The VCL was good at the time, but Pascal is more akin to C# in the way it does inheritance, so no multiple inheritance was able to be done with VCL components IIRC.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Yes and no, VCL is around, although it has been replaced by FireMonkey. Multiple inheritance in C++ is a can of worms, unless you're prepared to deal with the related issues of virtual base classes, and diamond inheritance. That is why after C++ all the languages that support multiple inheritance do so only at the interface level and not implementation code, or rather go with a mix-ins approach. And in regards to Microsoft world, well the same developers that weren't happy with VCL and Pascal, and in for a treat given that the only modern way to do native Windows UIs in Microsoft world is via .NET consuming DLLs/COM/WinRT, unless they want to either stick with MFC, or the outdated tooling in C++/WinRT.
    - memsom 2y ago
      Yeah, the VCL was the first UI framework I used. With regards to multiple inheritance, this was the C++ Builder criticism, not mine. That and the extra macros needed to support the VCL. I was a Delphi guy, so I appreciated that the Object Pascal version of using the VCL was cleaner to use than the C++ interface. We no longer use C++ for UI. Any native code is wrapped up in to P/Invokes. I think all of our MFC apps are EOL now. Everything is WPF or Maui for cross platform.

grujicd 2y ago

Can it open VS solution and project files?

russelg 2y ago
Of course it can, that's the baseline for a VS competitor lol
- grujicd 2y ago
  Well VS Code can’t open sone of VS project types, more specifically it couldn’t open the one based on JS and JS build tools. I’ll check with Rider.
  - memsom 2y ago
    It depends on the platform. For example, Rider on Mac will not open vscproj/vcxproj files, because it doesn't support C++ really on non Windows. But I think that is mostly because it would need to use a different C++ compiler and that is non trivial. I would imagine it would also struggle with project types that are not normal (VS extensions, installer projects etc) and C++/CLI as that is not supported outside of Windows too (and I think uses the standard vsc[x]proj file format anyway...)
urbandw311er 2y ago
Yes, it can pretty much do everything you’d get in Visual Studio.
memsom 2y ago
The latest version can now even open SLNX files, which are the newest format that removes a lot of the stuff that makes VS Solution files painful to maintain in source control.