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This is pretty huge all around, especially with Microsoft discontinuing Visual Studio for Mac. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/releases/2022/wha

This is pretty huge all around, especially with Microsoft discontinuing Visual Studio for Mac. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/releases/2022/what-happened-to-vs-for-mac https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/releases/2022... I'd also like to note the great integration Rider has with Godot and Unity for game development.

mananaysiempre 2y ago
Wasn’t VS for Mac a MonoDevelop build with amputated Linux support rather than a version of Visual Studio proper? Or am I out of date on this?
- billyhoffman 2y ago
  It started that way but wasn’t been for a while. In fact the last version was a rewrite using native macOS controls and optimized for Apple Silicon. Sad to see it go but heard great things about Rider for c# development.
  - nick_ 2y ago
    The newer mac version was actually showing huge promise. It was a couple of versions away from being a great choice as primary IDE. That said, I do understand why they axed it. The market would have been tiny for all that investment.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Shortly after the team managed to ship the 1.0 release of the rewrite, what a reward.
    - memsom 2y ago
      to be fair, I heard the team all got canned at the same time.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  Yes, that is what it was. Microsoft had continued to evolve it. And a few components from Visual Studio Windows were ported over to be common. But Visual Studio Mac was 100% rebranded Xamarin Studio which of course was just an evolution of MonoDevelop.
marklubi 2y ago
VS for Mac was junk. Better off trashing it and pushing people the VS Code route. I use VS Code daily for .NET development. It's probably 70% of what VS on Windows is, but it works well and I don't need to run a VM for it (if I need some of the in-depth tracing and profiling stuff, I can still fire up the gold standard). VS on Mac was maybe 30%
- fuzzy2 2y ago
  I mean, yes, VS Code certainly is great and all, but… > It's probably 70% of what VS on Windows is no. From my perspective, it doesn’t even have 50% of VS features, and that’s probably a generous estimation. VS has lots and lots of features. Granted, many of them are irrelevant for most users most of the time. Even Rider is lacking in comparison. It is very limited regarding debugging targets for example.
  - n_plus_1_acc 2y ago
    As a regulär Jetbrains products user, I was shocked when I first has to use VS. Until today, I haven't figured out how to open a class by name (from any assembly), other than writing they name in code ans strl-clicking it.
    - Yodel0914 2y ago
      Ctrl-T (or depending on your mappings, maybe Ctrl-P). Honestly, you can't blame the IDE for you not spending time working out how to do the basic stuff. Visual Studio has come a long way (I've been using it since the .net 1.1 days). Out of the box, it gives you most of what you got from Resharper 2 years ago. All that said, I switched to Rider a year or so ago and haven't looked back. I used to use VS for C# and VSCode for html/typescript/css, but Rider happily handles both. It's really nice to have one IDE for everything. And unsurprisingly, it seems to perform better than Resharper + VS.
      - notpushkin 2y ago
        > Honestly, you can't blame the IDE for you not spending time working out how to do the basic stuff. Wasn’t the whole premise of JetBrains making different IDEs for different stacks that you don’t need to learn how to do the basic stuff and can transfer your knowledge from <insert dominant IDE for said stack at the moment>?
klik99 2y ago
Don't forget Unreal as well - I've used Rider on multiple AAA Unreal titles that include custom engine edits and it is significantly faster than VS at loading massive projects. The integration is great and allows for seeing blueprint classes and references in the C++ project. I say this as a big user of JetBrains - I have had SOME issues with their intellisense dropping some references in Rider when there are a lot of references, so I would occasionally switch to VS when there were a lot of references to search through, but other than extreme cases Rider is just so much more pleasant to use.
- danhau 2y ago
  I had no idea Rider supported C++. My impression was that it is for .NET only. How does it compare to CLion?
  - klik99 2y ago
    Yeah they originally had a separate branch "Rider Unreal" but now it's part of Rider, C++ support seems mostly the same across both, except for project support. If IIRC Rider doesn't support CMake projects, but it does support vsproj projects, so if you generate vs files from cmake it'll load fine, but probably better to use CLion for any non-UE projects if using C++. I guess they're seeing it as .NET/GameDev IDE. Honestly I don't know why there are so many almost identical IDEs.
    - ohnoesjmr 2y ago
      I use both Rider (for mixed c++/c#) projects and CLion for C++ only. I feel that Rider is somehow better than CLion at c++, even after CLion Nova (Intellisense based on Resharper backend) became a thing. One difference is that I write boost::asio in CLion, and just vanilla C++ in Rider, and before Nova it was completely unusable with async code, now it's usable with async code, but after a few days of running the editor I end up with fatal IDE errors for CLion, and never for Rider.
    - throwaway19972 2y ago
      > Honestly I don't know why there are so many almost identical IDEs. Probably a reflection of internal organization to avoid product teams stepping on each others' toes.
sbrother 2y ago
What does "noncommercial use" mean in this context though? These are tools for work - is the idea that students can use them for free and then will start paying once they finish school?
- prepend 2y ago
  Students or OSS
  - Deukhoofd 2y ago
    But it was already free for students, and they have a partnership program with OSS which allows you to use it for free as well.
    - nightski 2y ago
      It was still a process. You had to have an established OSS project and go through the partnership process. Now you can just use it for free for any hobby/oss projects without all the red tape.
    - nic547 2y ago
      You need to apply once a year and you need to be a maintainer of an active oss project for the oss license. From my experience they're very lenient in regards to what they consider active, but I don't think I'd jump trough the hoops if I didn't start using Rider with the student license. Free for non-commercial offers a easy way to get people to use it and hopefully advocate for it at their jobs.
      - mariusor 2y ago
        I did jump through the hoops every year and it's mostly fine, a 20m form filling exercise. I only had to explain one time that my project was still ongoing despite having a lot of seemingly automated commits.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Quarrelsome 2y ago
> I'd also like to note the great integration Rider has with Godot I wish Godot's syntax for .NET wasn't horrible though. Its so nasty looking that it just makes me want to use their native language instead.
- connicpu 2y ago
  That's what I've opted for as well, and I have to say I prefer it. gdscript is a nice language for high level game scripting, and on the couple occasions I needed to bring in some high-performance code I found it super easy to build a gdextension in Rust.
  - nightowl_games 2y ago
    Forget gdextension imo Compile the engine from source and add your classes as a module. Cuts out all the gdextension glue code and then you don't need to ship a shared library.
    - capitol_ 2y ago
      Wouldn't this make engine version upgrades a nightmare?
      - nightowl_games 2y ago
        No. Your game code is a new class, in whats called a module, which is fully supported by the engine. Your game code almost definetly relies on the same stable APIs that a GDExtension or GDScript itself uses. There will be no merge conflicts, no problems, almost certainly. Note: We have a fork of godot that has some changes and fixes weve made and engine upgrades are still a breeze. Solving the odd merge conflict is not that hard, people do it all the time. Godot's code base isnt drastically changing from day to day. 3->4 only had significant impact if you were doing certain things with the 'visual server'... other than that even that was easy.
    - npinsker 2y ago
      How do you write Rust code in that case?
ferfumarma 2y ago
What does Rider add to the Godot dev experience? (I'm not familiar with either ecosystem, but I thought I recall Godot having an IDE when I last booted it up to play with it).
- terminalbraid 2y ago
  The Godot IDE is mainly around GDscript and is very basic. This gives you all the good tooling you'd get from a professional IDE, has best in class refactoring tools, integrates well with stuff like debugging, has a huge plugin ecosystem, better out-of-the-box suggestions and code completion, integrates with AI tooling, etc.
kwanbix 2y ago
This is better than nothing, but I believe a Unreal type of license for their products would be much better. Like, if you do less than what 5000 euros/usd per month, you can use it for free, after that, you pay X per major version. That way I can start using it for free, and as soon as I reached some reasonable ammount of money I start to pay. This is Unreal's license for those that don't know it: * Game developers (royalties apply after $1 million USD gross product revenue) = Free * Individuals and small businesses (with less than $1 million USD in annual gross revenue) = Free Another thing they can do is what they do with YouTrack. 1~2 devs, free, after that X per major version or Y per year.

mananaysiempre 2y ago

Wasn’t VS for Mac a MonoDevelop build with amputated Linux support rather than a version of Visual Studio proper? Or am I out of date on this?

billyhoffman 2y ago
It started that way but wasn’t been for a while. In fact the last version was a rewrite using native macOS controls and optimized for Apple Silicon. Sad to see it go but heard great things about Rider for c# development.
- nick_ 2y ago
  The newer mac version was actually showing huge promise. It was a couple of versions away from being a great choice as primary IDE. That said, I do understand why they axed it. The market would have been tiny for all that investment.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Shortly after the team managed to ship the 1.0 release of the rewrite, what a reward.
  - memsom 2y ago
    to be fair, I heard the team all got canned at the same time.
LeFantome 2y ago
Yes, that is what it was. Microsoft had continued to evolve it. And a few components from Visual Studio Windows were ported over to be common. But Visual Studio Mac was 100% rebranded Xamarin Studio which of course was just an evolution of MonoDevelop.

marklubi 2y ago

VS for Mac was junk. Better off trashing it and pushing people the VS Code route. I use VS Code daily for .NET development. It's probably 70% of what VS on Windows is, but it works well and I don't need to run a VM for it (if I need some of the in-depth tracing and profiling stuff, I can still fire up the gold standard). VS on Mac was maybe 30%

fuzzy2 2y ago
I mean, yes, VS Code certainly is great and all, but… > It's probably 70% of what VS on Windows is no. From my perspective, it doesn’t even have 50% of VS features, and that’s probably a generous estimation. VS has lots and lots of features. Granted, many of them are irrelevant for most users most of the time. Even Rider is lacking in comparison. It is very limited regarding debugging targets for example.
- n_plus_1_acc 2y ago
  As a regulär Jetbrains products user, I was shocked when I first has to use VS. Until today, I haven't figured out how to open a class by name (from any assembly), other than writing they name in code ans strl-clicking it.
  - Yodel0914 2y ago
    Ctrl-T (or depending on your mappings, maybe Ctrl-P). Honestly, you can't blame the IDE for you not spending time working out how to do the basic stuff. Visual Studio has come a long way (I've been using it since the .net 1.1 days). Out of the box, it gives you most of what you got from Resharper 2 years ago. All that said, I switched to Rider a year or so ago and haven't looked back. I used to use VS for C# and VSCode for html/typescript/css, but Rider happily handles both. It's really nice to have one IDE for everything. And unsurprisingly, it seems to perform better than Resharper + VS.
    - notpushkin 2y ago
      > Honestly, you can't blame the IDE for you not spending time working out how to do the basic stuff. Wasn’t the whole premise of JetBrains making different IDEs for different stacks that you don’t need to learn how to do the basic stuff and can transfer your knowledge from <insert dominant IDE for said stack at the moment>?

klik99 2y ago

Don't forget Unreal as well - I've used Rider on multiple AAA Unreal titles that include custom engine edits and it is significantly faster than VS at loading massive projects. The integration is great and allows for seeing blueprint classes and references in the C++ project. I say this as a big user of JetBrains - I have had SOME issues with their intellisense dropping some references in Rider when there are a lot of references, so I would occasionally switch to VS when there were a lot of references to search through, but other than extreme cases Rider is just so much more pleasant to use.

danhau 2y ago
I had no idea Rider supported C++. My impression was that it is for .NET only. How does it compare to CLion?
- klik99 2y ago
  Yeah they originally had a separate branch "Rider Unreal" but now it's part of Rider, C++ support seems mostly the same across both, except for project support. If IIRC Rider doesn't support CMake projects, but it does support vsproj projects, so if you generate vs files from cmake it'll load fine, but probably better to use CLion for any non-UE projects if using C++. I guess they're seeing it as .NET/GameDev IDE. Honestly I don't know why there are so many almost identical IDEs.
  - ohnoesjmr 2y ago
    I use both Rider (for mixed c++/c#) projects and CLion for C++ only. I feel that Rider is somehow better than CLion at c++, even after CLion Nova (Intellisense based on Resharper backend) became a thing. One difference is that I write boost::asio in CLion, and just vanilla C++ in Rider, and before Nova it was completely unusable with async code, now it's usable with async code, but after a few days of running the editor I end up with fatal IDE errors for CLion, and never for Rider.
  - throwaway19972 2y ago
    > Honestly I don't know why there are so many almost identical IDEs. Probably a reflection of internal organization to avoid product teams stepping on each others' toes.

sbrother 2y ago

What does "noncommercial use" mean in this context though? These are tools for work - is the idea that students can use them for free and then will start paying once they finish school?

prepend 2y ago
Students or OSS
- Deukhoofd 2y ago
  But it was already free for students, and they have a partnership program with OSS which allows you to use it for free as well.
  - nightski 2y ago
    It was still a process. You had to have an established OSS project and go through the partnership process. Now you can just use it for free for any hobby/oss projects without all the red tape.
  - nic547 2y ago
    You need to apply once a year and you need to be a maintainer of an active oss project for the oss license. From my experience they're very lenient in regards to what they consider active, but I don't think I'd jump trough the hoops if I didn't start using Rider with the student license. Free for non-commercial offers a easy way to get people to use it and hopefully advocate for it at their jobs.
    - mariusor 2y ago
      I did jump through the hoops every year and it's mostly fine, a 20m form filling exercise. I only had to explain one time that my project was still ongoing despite having a lot of seemingly automated commits.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Quarrelsome 2y ago

> I'd also like to note the great integration Rider has with Godot I wish Godot's syntax for .NET wasn't horrible though. Its so nasty looking that it just makes me want to use their native language instead.

connicpu 2y ago
That's what I've opted for as well, and I have to say I prefer it. gdscript is a nice language for high level game scripting, and on the couple occasions I needed to bring in some high-performance code I found it super easy to build a gdextension in Rust.
- nightowl_games 2y ago
  Forget gdextension imo Compile the engine from source and add your classes as a module. Cuts out all the gdextension glue code and then you don't need to ship a shared library.
  - capitol_ 2y ago
    Wouldn't this make engine version upgrades a nightmare?
    - nightowl_games 2y ago
      No. Your game code is a new class, in whats called a module, which is fully supported by the engine. Your game code almost definetly relies on the same stable APIs that a GDExtension or GDScript itself uses. There will be no merge conflicts, no problems, almost certainly. Note: We have a fork of godot that has some changes and fixes weve made and engine upgrades are still a breeze. Solving the odd merge conflict is not that hard, people do it all the time. Godot's code base isnt drastically changing from day to day. 3->4 only had significant impact if you were doing certain things with the 'visual server'... other than that even that was easy.
  - npinsker 2y ago
    How do you write Rust code in that case?

ferfumarma 2y ago

What does Rider add to the Godot dev experience? (I'm not familiar with either ecosystem, but I thought I recall Godot having an IDE when I last booted it up to play with it).

terminalbraid 2y ago
The Godot IDE is mainly around GDscript and is very basic. This gives you all the good tooling you'd get from a professional IDE, has best in class refactoring tools, integrates well with stuff like debugging, has a huge plugin ecosystem, better out-of-the-box suggestions and code completion, integrates with AI tooling, etc.

kwanbix 2y ago

This is better than nothing, but I believe a Unreal type of license for their products would be much better. Like, if you do less than what 5000 euros/usd per month, you can use it for free, after that, you pay X per major version. That way I can start using it for free, and as soon as I reached some reasonable ammount of money I start to pay. This is Unreal's license for those that don't know it: * Game developers (royalties apply after $1 million USD gross product revenue) = Free * Individuals and small businesses (with less than $1 million USD in annual gross revenue) = Free Another thing they can do is what they do with YouTrack. 1~2 devs, free, after that X per major version or Y per year.