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They're not smuggling the cores for usage. They're smuggling to reverse engineer, and the Chinese are much better (even if more willing) at it than Americans. Y

They're not smuggling the cores for usage. They're smuggling to reverse engineer, and the Chinese are much better (even if more willing) at it than Americans. You are also discounting that China has driven a new century of human prosperity for their country and globally through highly efficient manufacturing that has proven tough to replicate.

CorrectHorseBat 2y ago
Not in this case, the chips were detected in Huawei products
nradov 2y ago
Reverse engineering is the easy part. China still lacks EUV lithography manufacturing technology. They'll figure it out eventually but the point is to stay a generation ahead. Just like China can manufacture turbine engines but only ones equivalent to what we had some years ago.
- datadeft 2y ago
  I think China does not need cutting edge of everything to be successful. If they build a nuclear power plant that has turbines from 5 years ago they are still going to be ok. The question what kind of power plant to build is much more important.
jumping_frog 2y ago
A company probably needs a couple of 100s chips to reverse engineer. Not much.
15155 2y ago
How many IC samples are required to do a layer-by-layer reverse engineering of something at single-nm feature sizes? Ok, now you've got "something" here even resembling a netlist (lol), what do you do with it? Keep in mind: you don't actually have the manufacturing technology to use this IP. By the time you do, the IC you reversed is no longer state of the art. I think state-sponsored corporate espionage would be a lot more fruitful and cheaper.
vasco 2y ago
> highly efficient manufacturing Is "highly efficient manufacturing" a euphemism for low paid labor and slave labor? As far as I know pretty much any product that moved production to China did it because of low labor costs. It's also been reported that companies have also exited China into other low paid labor countries in the region. Meanwhile the only factories that return to the US are exactly the ones that invested in automation and efficient manufacturing, as it's the only way to beat the low costs. They've also managed to pump out really cheap solar panels and EVs, but it's not clear to me how much of that is upgraded automation vs government subsidies.
- jpgvm 2y ago
  Almost all of it is better automation, shorter supply lines and abundance of highly skilled labor. Manufacturing electronics in China hasn't been about labor costs for a decade. It's still about costs overall but instead of people it's access to the right machines, close enough to where everything else is being sourced and final assembly is done etc.
- hilux 2y ago
  What China has done to lift the living standards of over one billion people is unprecedented. (S Korea's progress was even greater, but on a much smaller scale.) Everyone can see this. Only (some) white Americans don't want to acknowledge it, or need to explain it away.
- CorrectHorseBat 2y ago
  >Is "highly efficient manufacturing" a euphemism for low paid labor and slave labor? No, it might have once but Chinese labor isn't that cheap anymore. It means a well educated population, stable government, good infrastructure and other manufacturers in proximity. >They've also managed to pump out really cheap solar panels and EVs, but it's not clear to me how much of that is upgraded automation vs government subsidies. The price of solar panels has followed Wright’s Law for about 5 decades, there's nothing out of the ordinary about the last decade. If all the reduction in price was subsidies the Chinese government would be subsidizing about 90% of the price of every panel. Same thing for batteries.

CorrectHorseBat 2y ago

Not in this case, the chips were detected in Huawei products

nradov 2y ago

Reverse engineering is the easy part. China still lacks EUV lithography manufacturing technology. They'll figure it out eventually but the point is to stay a generation ahead. Just like China can manufacture turbine engines but only ones equivalent to what we had some years ago.

datadeft 2y ago
I think China does not need cutting edge of everything to be successful. If they build a nuclear power plant that has turbines from 5 years ago they are still going to be ok. The question what kind of power plant to build is much more important.

jumping_frog 2y ago

A company probably needs a couple of 100s chips to reverse engineer. Not much.

15155 2y ago

How many IC samples are required to do a layer-by-layer reverse engineering of something at single-nm feature sizes? Ok, now you've got "something" here even resembling a netlist (lol), what do you do with it? Keep in mind: you don't actually have the manufacturing technology to use this IP. By the time you do, the IC you reversed is no longer state of the art. I think state-sponsored corporate espionage would be a lot more fruitful and cheaper.

vasco 2y ago

> highly efficient manufacturing Is "highly efficient manufacturing" a euphemism for low paid labor and slave labor? As far as I know pretty much any product that moved production to China did it because of low labor costs. It's also been reported that companies have also exited China into other low paid labor countries in the region. Meanwhile the only factories that return to the US are exactly the ones that invested in automation and efficient manufacturing, as it's the only way to beat the low costs. They've also managed to pump out really cheap solar panels and EVs, but it's not clear to me how much of that is upgraded automation vs government subsidies.

jpgvm 2y ago
Almost all of it is better automation, shorter supply lines and abundance of highly skilled labor. Manufacturing electronics in China hasn't been about labor costs for a decade. It's still about costs overall but instead of people it's access to the right machines, close enough to where everything else is being sourced and final assembly is done etc.
hilux 2y ago
What China has done to lift the living standards of over one billion people is unprecedented. (S Korea's progress was even greater, but on a much smaller scale.) Everyone can see this. Only (some) white Americans don't want to acknowledge it, or need to explain it away.
CorrectHorseBat 2y ago
>Is "highly efficient manufacturing" a euphemism for low paid labor and slave labor? No, it might have once but Chinese labor isn't that cheap anymore. It means a well educated population, stable government, good infrastructure and other manufacturers in proximity. >They've also managed to pump out really cheap solar panels and EVs, but it's not clear to me how much of that is upgraded automation vs government subsidies. The price of solar panels has followed Wright’s Law for about 5 decades, there's nothing out of the ordinary about the last decade. If all the reduction in price was subsidies the Chinese government would be subsidizing about 90% of the price of every panel. Same thing for batteries.