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Is this being done as a sanction against Russia or because it is feared that the Russian government would get some rogue developers to submit code to the kernel

Is this being done as a sanction against Russia or because it is feared that the Russian government would get some rogue developers to submit code to the kernel that enables attacks? Individual Russian programmers are not responsible for the invasion of Ukraine, so I would be reluctant to punish them for Putin's crime and to deprive Linux of their contributions.

talldayo 2y ago
> I would be reluctant to punish them for Putin's crime and to deprive Linux of their contributions. They can still contribute to Linux - being removed as a maintainer doesn't mean you can't fork Linux. If they have downstream changes they want to contribute to everyone upstream, there is nothing here preventing them from doing it the same way everyone else does.
- shmel 2y ago
  As if a normal person would bother lol. If I was discriminated this way just because of my country of birth, I'd stop engaging with such an organization at all.
  - gtirloni 2y ago
    Most people working on the Linux kernel are being paid by their employers to do so. This creates roadblocks for those companies. The days of the kernel being developed by a majority of idealistic developers is long gone.
  - g-b-r 2y ago
    It's because of their government, not of their country of birth
ysjet 2y ago
Specifically, the removed individuals work for Russian organizations that are sanctioned. So this isn't really about individual Russian programmers at all.
- biblbroxxx 2y ago
  I was trying to find the reason of their removal in the email conversation, but I couldn't have done it. The only statement was provided was something like "the reasons are clear". But it's not clear whether they were removed because of their association with sanctioned companies or just because of their country.
dzhiurgis 2y ago
More like Russian government would use a spanner to convince a maintainer to put a backdoor. Delisting them is actually best for both - maintainer and linux. Russia cannot break your skull anymore and linux keeps a contributor.
tivert 2y ago
> Individual Russian programmers are not responsible for the invasion of Ukraine, so I would be reluctant to punish them for Putin's crime and to deprive Linux of their contributions. True, but individual Russian programmers are not free of Putin's influence, and could be compelled to do undesirable things. The day after the invasion of Ukraine, my employer locked out all contractors we employed who resided in Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus. They got their access back once they relocated to a non-combatant country, which most of them did in short order. That probably also saved many of their lives, since it meant they escaped the draft.
- ogurechny 2y ago
  Treating employees like slaves, and boasting that you “help” their stupid asses is so charming. Oh my dear cork hat! Oh my dear plantation!
  - tivert 2y ago
    > Treating employees like slaves, and boasting that you “help” their stupid asses is so charming. Oh my dear cork hat! Oh my dear plantation! Are you, like, completely ignorant of what's going on in the world? The day after the invasion one of them, totally unprompted, basically apologized on behalf of his country in our standup and said he opposed the war (they still had access to Office 365 throughout).
- tpkee 2y ago
  Ah! Finally the spies have been freed from Putin influence by being relocated to a safer country, no matter that if someone is truly as brainwashed as you say changing countries is pointless. Fucking hypocrisy
  - tivert 2y ago
    > Ah! Finally the spies have been freed from Putin influence by being relocated to a safer country, no matter that if someone is truly as brainwashed as you say changing countries is pointless. Fucking hypocrisy WTF, man? I actually worked with a few of those folks. I don't think they were spies, but the policy was understandable, given the context. It dealt with risks that were practical to mitigate on such short notice when there was a lot of uncertainty, but didn't mitigate all risks. Nothing's perfect.

talldayo 2y ago

> I would be reluctant to punish them for Putin's crime and to deprive Linux of their contributions. They can still contribute to Linux - being removed as a maintainer doesn't mean you can't fork Linux. If they have downstream changes they want to contribute to everyone upstream, there is nothing here preventing them from doing it the same way everyone else does.

shmel 2y ago
As if a normal person would bother lol. If I was discriminated this way just because of my country of birth, I'd stop engaging with such an organization at all.
- gtirloni 2y ago
  Most people working on the Linux kernel are being paid by their employers to do so. This creates roadblocks for those companies. The days of the kernel being developed by a majority of idealistic developers is long gone.
- g-b-r 2y ago
  It's because of their government, not of their country of birth

ysjet 2y ago

Specifically, the removed individuals work for Russian organizations that are sanctioned. So this isn't really about individual Russian programmers at all.

biblbroxxx 2y ago
I was trying to find the reason of their removal in the email conversation, but I couldn't have done it. The only statement was provided was something like "the reasons are clear". But it's not clear whether they were removed because of their association with sanctioned companies or just because of their country.

dzhiurgis 2y ago

More like Russian government would use a spanner to convince a maintainer to put a backdoor. Delisting them is actually best for both - maintainer and linux. Russia cannot break your skull anymore and linux keeps a contributor.

tivert 2y ago

> Individual Russian programmers are not responsible for the invasion of Ukraine, so I would be reluctant to punish them for Putin's crime and to deprive Linux of their contributions. True, but individual Russian programmers are not free of Putin's influence, and could be compelled to do undesirable things. The day after the invasion of Ukraine, my employer locked out all contractors we employed who resided in Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus. They got their access back once they relocated to a non-combatant country, which most of them did in short order. That probably also saved many of their lives, since it meant they escaped the draft.

ogurechny 2y ago
Treating employees like slaves, and boasting that you “help” their stupid asses is so charming. Oh my dear cork hat! Oh my dear plantation!
- tivert 2y ago
  > Treating employees like slaves, and boasting that you “help” their stupid asses is so charming. Oh my dear cork hat! Oh my dear plantation! Are you, like, completely ignorant of what's going on in the world? The day after the invasion one of them, totally unprompted, basically apologized on behalf of his country in our standup and said he opposed the war (they still had access to Office 365 throughout).
tpkee 2y ago
Ah! Finally the spies have been freed from Putin influence by being relocated to a safer country, no matter that if someone is truly as brainwashed as you say changing countries is pointless. Fucking hypocrisy
- tivert 2y ago
  > Ah! Finally the spies have been freed from Putin influence by being relocated to a safer country, no matter that if someone is truly as brainwashed as you say changing countries is pointless. Fucking hypocrisy WTF, man? I actually worked with a few of those folks. I don't think they were spies, but the policy was understandable, given the context. It dealt with risks that were practical to mitigate on such short notice when there was a lot of uncertainty, but didn't mitigate all risks. Nothing's perfect.