4 ms·

Why is Apple so bad at marketing its TV shows?

41 points by ilamont 2y ago

wongarsu 2y ago
Maybe Apple should hold a yearly event building hype for their new and ongoing shows. That's by far spots Apple's best marketing channel for every other product they have
SheinhardtWigCo 2y ago
Apple TV+ generates less viewing in one month than Netflix does in one day. (source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-07-21/apple-tries-to-rein-in-hollywood-spending-after-years-of-losses https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-07-21/apple-...)
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  Humorously, many Apple TV+ series begin with the message, "An Apple Original." What if Apple renamed Apple TV+ to just Apple Originals? The branding they are already using? Then we wouldn't have 3 different uses of "Apple TV" (the iPhone app, the streaming box, the subscription service)... and it's so much clearer to a customer what it means. I personally wonder if a huge part of this, is just that customers have no clue what "Apple TV+" even... is. Does it have something to do with the Apple TV box being advertised when they bought their iPhone? And customers don't read, the title says all they need to know (or lack thereof). Or another solution (for any employees reading): Spin it off the Apple brand. Don't use the name Apple on it. Come up with some stupid name along the lines of Pluto, Popcornflix, Freevee, or whatever have you; and offer an ad-supported free tier. Watch the viewership explode. Remove the ad tier afterwards.
  - basch 2y ago
    Cross license the first season to other streaming apps, while not removing it from Apple TV+. Like what you saw? Want more? Subscribe.
    - fmajid 2y ago
      They are going to license them to Amazon Prime, which will charge an additional-on subscription like they do for Paramount+. Needless to say, that will eat further into Apple’s already nonexistent margins.
Suppafly 2y ago
I agree that Apple isn't great about marketing it's shows, but part of the issue is that their shows just aren't that good. I imagine if you're into the Apple ecosystem, you probably get ads for them, but from the outside, it's crickets. I subscribed literally for Ted Lasso and have debated canceling every month since I finished it.
- nicoco 2y ago
  Severance is excellent, for all mankind was decent. Other ones I've watched were quitte bad indeed.
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    I agree that Severance was good. I suppose they'll come out with a new season right about the time I think about canceling again. I have also been watching Shrinking, but it's not really enough to keep me on the platform. Apple's content seems to be getting well known actors and then putting them into random shows and hoping that people will find out about them via word of mouth or something. There is also basically no back catalog worth watching like there is with other streaming services.
  - ssijak 2y ago
    Tiny world is amazing
- skhunted 2y ago
  I believe Apple has some fantastic shows. Severance, Tehran, Silo, Slow Horses, Liason, Physical, For All Mankind (season 1).
  - AndroidKitKat 2y ago
    If you haven't already, check out Dark Matter, too!
    - skhunted 2y ago
wellthisisgreat 2y ago
apple tv tv shows are generally bad, neutered "content"
- fmajid 2y ago
  And censored to appease the Chinese Communist Party.
gjsman-1000 2y ago
If anyone wants the ultimate case study in failed Apple business expansions, go back and watch the March 2019 event (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZmBoMZFC8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZmBoMZFC8g). Apple TV+, Apple Card, Apple News+, and Apple Arcade where all launched there. All have been, for Apple's size and scale, business debacles. Apple TV+'s debacles are well documented in this post, Apple Card is in the news today for incompetence (and has lost billions from Goldman Sachs, and has never launched outside the US), Apple News+ is doing okay with 19 million subscribers, and Apple Arcade has caused no shortage of public publisher ire (#1). Edit for #1: Apple Arcade has been a dumpster fire on the backend... https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/07/31/apple-arcade-developers-say-working-with-apple-is-like-being-in-an-abusive-relationship https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/07/31/apple-arcade-deve... https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/10/08/ex-app-store-head-says-apple-arcade-violates-apples-own-policies https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/10/08/ex-app-store-head... https://mobilegamer.biz/inside-apple-arcade-axed-games-declining-payouts-disillusioned-studios-and-an-uncertain-future/ https://mobilegamer.biz/inside-apple-arcade-axed-games-decli... https://mobilegamer.biz/inside-apple-arcade-again-late-payments-stonewalled-studios-terrible-tech-support-and-vision-pro-woes/ https://mobilegamer.biz/inside-apple-arcade-again-late-payme...
- yial 2y ago
  Apple Card doesn’t seem like a loss for Apple and customers however. Just Goldman Sachs. Though it does seem like Apple may have given GS overly optimistic data. Apple Arcade from a user standpoint seems okay. (I have only played two games from it, but keep the subscription for other family members). Apple TV I forget about, even though I have enjoyed some great content on it. News, while I have it, I have never used. Same with Apple Music. (Which I think is in the same bundle of things).
  - Apocryphon 2y ago
    Wonder what's the most dispensable Apple service. I'd guess either Apple News or Apple Fitness+. I don't think these Apple One services are chipping away hugely from Apple's bottom line, but it almost feels a little like a retread of the '90s when they were making everything from the Newton to printers to the Pippin. At least software services are cheaper to build than real gear!
RandallBrown 2y ago
> “If you’re a fan of a show on Apple TV,” says Ray, “you have this fear that it’s not being appreciated, it’s not being seen, and you have to tell people about it because the platform itself isn’t going to do it.” I've never had this issue with Apple TV shows.
- karaterobot 2y ago
  Or even shows in general! There's so much TV now, I don't care who is watching what I'm watching. And shows seem to get renewed or not based on opaque processes and metrics I don't feel capable of knowing, let alone supporting.
bluetidepro 2y ago
Whatever the reason may be, the article outlines a few possibilities, I do agree there is a ton of great content on Apple TV+ that people are sleeping on. I recently watched "The Morning Show", "For All Mankind", and "Presumed Innocent." All were absolutely incredible shows, and none of my friends had heard of them (people who are usually very up to date with shows) furthering that their marketing is not the best for their tv content. Ted Lasso seems to be the only show of theirs that I've felt like broke through all the noise and is most widely known. However, I do think they have been marketing their movies a lot better. One the new movies "Wolfs" with Brad Pitt, and George Clooney had billboards all over my city. I know many people that did watch that the first week it came out.
- number6 2y ago
  For all mankind is a great show - nobody ever heard of it, but it's great
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Apocryphon 2y ago
Ted Lasso, For All Mankind, and maybe Severance aside, I'm not sure if there's much mass market awareness of Apple TV+ shows. But I'm also uncertain whether any of the streaming services aside from Netflix, Amazon Prime, (HBO) Max, Disney+, and maybe Hulu via brands like FX are able to successfully market their original content. Paramount+ maybe via Star Trek and the one-man empire that is Taylor Sheridan and his Sheridanverse (the Yellowstoneverse?), but that seems like a more limited IP stable than Disney's. There's a lot of noise, a lot of subscription fees, and a lot of losers. Apple might've produced Killers of the Flower Moon and slapped their name on Coda, but they're in a completely saturated and user-fatigued market.
giancarlostoro 2y ago
I don't know but Frog and Toad is one of my two year olds favorite shows, as is If You Give a Mouse a Cookie on Amazon. Both based on books, both really well done in my opinion.
- Apocryphon 2y ago
  Apple was really onto something in getting the streaming rights to all of the Peanuts content. The Snoopy Show is quality old-fashioned, non-hyperkinetic, mellow cartoon toddler fodder.
  - mangodrunk 2y ago
    I agree. The Snoopy Show seasons 1 and 2 were great, and the third was good. I am hoping they will release another season of Snoopy in Space.
  - giancarlostoro 2y ago
    Yeah, I really enjoyed one of their holiday movies too (Ryan Reynolds is in it, I forgot the name), I hope they keep it up with just introducing just high quality content.
23B1 2y ago
Apple has always been kind of not great at marketing, simply because their attitude has always been "the product markets itself." That isn't to say they don't, it's just a cultural attitude inside the company. It's a crying shame because their content teams have obviously great taste and are willing to experiment, and they must be pulling their hair out over this, but yeah – AAPL should not only do more and better marketing, but consider licensing their content out in a limited fashion to draw people in, especially if they're going to maintain 'the product markets itself' – I can still buy iPods in BEst Buy, for an example. People WANT apple to succeed on this content front. The Apple Vision program especially would benefit from high quality content, well-marketed, especially to drive adoption and thus reduce cost; amazing immersive/interactive content is the killer app for AR/VR if you ask me. Let silly Zuck make dumb avatars and fake lowbrow games, if I'm going to project content directly onto my eyeballs, let it be Oscar-worthy.
- ilamont 2y ago
  I think the other part of the problem is Apple historically has such tight control over marketing and messaging. It does not encourage its people to work on something on the fly, experimenting with new channels or formats, or delegating to local agencies.
- aorona 2y ago
  I think it was their exceptional design in the 2000s. They were never the first, but they were exceptional at appearing to be an innovator on the originality of their product design. I have not been impressed with apple design innovation for some time though, they've gotten stale.
  - 23B1 2y ago
    Much of the innovation, for better or worse, happens in miniaturization, power & thermal management, and supply chain. Apple's inventory turns are insane.
- some_random 2y ago
  I don't really think that's true, Apple has always marketed quite aggressively. In fact they invented (or at least popularized) the CEO keynote ad to say nothing of their history of more traditional ads going all the way back to their 1984 ad [1]. As for the AVP, they pretty clearly want it to be a productivity thing as opposed to a video game machine that every other consumer VR product is, which is consistent with their historic ambivalence to video games. In fact, I'd say that it's Zuck et al who are making "Oscar-worthy" VR experiences (or at least enabling them), while Apple's are basic and derivative [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALOn35L3OMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALOn35L3OMs
wvenable 2y ago
Apple TV+ library is also incredibly small -- there's little excuse to go back and see what new shows are in there because there usually aren't any. I wonder how many people are burnt out on dramas that have 8-10 episode seasons, end on a cliff hanger, and you have to wait 1-2 years for the next season. At this point, I've just stopped watching any series that isn't "done" regardless of the streaming service.
- badgersnake 2y ago
  > Apple TV+ library is also incredibly small That’s fine, it’s small but mostly high quality. How much TV do you want to watch?
  - posterguy 2y ago
    What does this question aim to illustrate? I don't personally watch any tv these days but recall being in my 20s and having less obligation, burning through shows with my spare time. If someone said "more than they offer", what possible retort could you have?
  - wvenable 2y ago
    High quality is not enough. I've watched a few Apple TV shows and I agree that they are high quality but that doesn't mean I want to watch them all. Many of them simply don't interest me or suit my mood. With just a few notable exceptions most Apple TV+ shows, while ostensibly different genres, all kind feel like they fit in the same box.
  - _fs 2y ago
    I don't think that op is implying anything wrong with a small library. It's more that you don't open the app and browse it. New shows that might be available are unknown, simply because you have not opened the app on your TV. Because of this, to save money, users will only subscribe for a month, then wait a year before they resub to find new shows. I often open Netflix and just browse new additions. I can do this often, because I know the library will add new shows and movies every week.
- 2y ago
gwbas1c 2y ago
Every time I hear about some show, what goes through my head are: 1: Do I need to buy another subscription? 2: Will I need to sit through ads? If the answer is yes to either question, I'm not interested. I already have more TV that I want to watch than I can watch. (I don't mind paying for shows outright, though.)
- financetechbro 2y ago
  I can’t imagine how it’s posible to watch anything with such restrictions (assuming no pirating is involved)
  - gwbas1c 2y ago
    I used to be able to just buy a season of a show for $20-ish. Much cheaper than a subscription, and significantly cheaper than traditional cable. I don't want to have to manage subscriptions.
aorona 2y ago
The walled garden certainly keeps me out of the apple ecosystem. I love MacOS but I don't want to pay a premium for vendor lock-in and I infer that most (if not all) apple products are double-edged in that manner.
- jghn 2y ago
  I watch Apple TV+ on my Roku. No Apple hardware required
  - badgersnake 2y ago
    It’s surprising how many people think you have to have an Apple device to stream Apple TV.
    - autoexec 2y ago
      Apple kind of did that to themselves. Even the name "Apple TV" isn't doing them any favors. https://www.apple.com/tv-home/ https://www.apple.com/tv-home/
    - baggachipz 2y ago
      I personally think this is the major reason their ratings are so low. My parents want to watch Ted Lasso, and I told them to subscribe and watch it. "We can't, we have a roku, and I'm not paying $200 for another box." Imagine millions doing this and you see the result.
    - consteval 2y ago
      To be fair the device and service have, like, the same name. Assuming some relationship between them is obvious. Also, this is Apple, the guys who are very dedicated to pairing hardware and software together.
bitshiftfaced 2y ago
Is there yet a convenient way to watch Apple TV with Chromecast?
ISV_Damocles 2y ago
This article touched on a point that I feel is very relevant: unexpected show cancellations, apparently now happening for Apple TV+, as well. Netflix and Disney+ trained me to not even watch a show until it's concluded because it could get cancelled and I don't want to invest my small amount of free time on entertainment that might not even finish. It does produce a self-fulfilling prophecy where people with the same mindset as me on this do the same, and then the rating for something I (and probably they) are interested in aren't high enough and it gets cancelled. What should worry them, though, is that it also led to the final step for them; I cancelled my Netflix and Disney+ subscriptions with no intention of renewing them around a year ago. The end result is that "TV series"-style shows are effectively dead to me; I've shifted my time on them mostly to novels (that are basically behind-the-curve on this trend, hopefully forever), followed by single-player video games, and finally movies. (Why didn't movies take the first slot? Because I'm only willing/able to give 30-60 minutes of continuous time to entertainment most of the time, and it's very unsatisfying to pause a movie to resume later.) The continuous, immediate feedback on series performance coupled with a reputation of acting on that feedback immediately is killing the traditional television medium. On top of all of that, Apple TV+ has the added albatross of requiring their hardware for the shows, as if they were somehow a siren song to get people more tightly nestled into their ecosystem, and therefore dooming their shows to failure, at least amongst people who don't want to pay for overpriced hardware running software of degrading quality over the years (I switched to Linux in 2016 because it was more reliable than my MacBook Air; being better than Windows isn't good enough anymore, especially when Linux has a greater catalog of software these days). The needs of Apple, Inc weigh on their Apple TV division, they don't help it, and the sins of the streaming services against actually finishing a story further increase the trust deficit with Apple TV+. No amount of marketing is going to turn that around.
- wvenable 2y ago
  > On top of all of that, Apple TV+ has the added albatross of requiring their hardware for the shows You do not need Apple hardware to watch Apple TV+ -- I'm watching it just fine on my LG TV with WebOS.
- stephenr 2y ago
  > On top of all of that, Apple TV+ has the added albatross of requiring their hardware for the shows What are you talking about? You don't need an Apple device to watch their TV service. https://www.apple.com/by/apple-tv-app/devices/ https://www.apple.com/by/apple-tv-app/devices/
empath75 2y ago
They also made a massive deal with MLS that led to Messi coming to the US, and they've done a terrible job of getting an mainstream attention for that, even though it's a _great_ viewing experience -- you can watch every game, including 4 games at the same time if you want, and rewatch them whenever you want and the production quality is decent. If nothing else, they should be doing a full court press to get newspapers and ESPN etc to increase their coverage of MLS, even the Miami Herald is barely covering soccer and Miami is full of soccer fans and the team just set the all time single season points record and has one of the greatest athletes of all time on the field.
- NickC25 2y ago
  A few issues speaking as someone who lives in the greater 305 area: 1. Marketing is primarily to get people to come to games as opposed to watching the team on TV. Problem is, nobody wants to go because the stadium is 45 minutes away without traffic. 2. Fans of other teams aren't going to skip their own team's games to watch Messi. They've been able to watch him in a world-class team for close to 20 years, so now that he's nearly 40 and walks around most of the time, they aren't as interested. 3. Miami is full of soccer fans that are fans of their favorite teams from their home countries. 4. Ticket prices are outrageous. So are parking passes. The new stadium isn't even breaking ground yet. Miami fans are used to getting screwed, and hosting Messi in this current mess is not helping. 5. ESPN will never advertise for a competitor unless they are forced to. ESPN lost the MLS rights to Apple TV+.
NickC25 2y ago
Their content is OK outside the MLS deal. I will get roasted for this, but I enjoyed Foundation. Decent sci-fi with some cool visuals and interesting concepts. It just had nothing to do with the actual books.
- weikju 2y ago
  Yessss finally someone else who can see beyond “it’s different from the books!” And enjoy the actual show (not without its warts but still enjoyable)
  - NickC25 2y ago
    Yeah! The show itself was pretty neat IMO. Neat world-building, the concepts were cool, the ship designs were cool, some of the acting was good, and overall, I think considering the density and depth of the source material, they did a pretty decent job. Again, it's not the same as the books. And that's OK. It's hard to tell the same story with images in a small timeframe than it is to do over the course of a half dozen books each 500+ pages in length.
AcerbicZero 2y ago
From my limited experience with Apple TV (Master of the Air and whatever that terrible Nasa one was) they seem to suffer from the same problem as most throw away TV shows on the streaming services - They lack writers who know anything about the subject matter and they couldn't care less about attention to detail. They attempt to cash in on the emotional value of these dramatic events without doing the legwork required to do it properly and so it falls flat upon its face.
z3ncyberpunk 2y ago
Well, to start, their TV shows are pretty terrible.

41 points by ilamont 2y ago

Maybe Apple should hold a yearly event building hype for their new and ongoing shows. That's by far spots Apple's best marketing channel for every other product they have

SheinhardtWigCo 2y ago

Apple TV+ generates less viewing in one month than Netflix does in one day. (source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-07-21/apple-tries-to-rein-in-hollywood-spending-after-years-of-losses https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-07-21/apple-...)

gjsman-1000 2y ago
Humorously, many Apple TV+ series begin with the message, "An Apple Original." What if Apple renamed Apple TV+ to just Apple Originals? The branding they are already using? Then we wouldn't have 3 different uses of "Apple TV" (the iPhone app, the streaming box, the subscription service)... and it's so much clearer to a customer what it means. I personally wonder if a huge part of this, is just that customers have no clue what "Apple TV+" even... is. Does it have something to do with the Apple TV box being advertised when they bought their iPhone? And customers don't read, the title says all they need to know (or lack thereof). Or another solution (for any employees reading): Spin it off the Apple brand. Don't use the name Apple on it. Come up with some stupid name along the lines of Pluto, Popcornflix, Freevee, or whatever have you; and offer an ad-supported free tier. Watch the viewership explode. Remove the ad tier afterwards.
- basch 2y ago
  Cross license the first season to other streaming apps, while not removing it from Apple TV+. Like what you saw? Want more? Subscribe.
  - fmajid 2y ago
    They are going to license them to Amazon Prime, which will charge an additional-on subscription like they do for Paramount+. Needless to say, that will eat further into Apple’s already nonexistent margins.

Suppafly 2y ago

I agree that Apple isn't great about marketing it's shows, but part of the issue is that their shows just aren't that good. I imagine if you're into the Apple ecosystem, you probably get ads for them, but from the outside, it's crickets. I subscribed literally for Ted Lasso and have debated canceling every month since I finished it.

nicoco 2y ago
Severance is excellent, for all mankind was decent. Other ones I've watched were quitte bad indeed.
- Suppafly 2y ago
  I agree that Severance was good. I suppose they'll come out with a new season right about the time I think about canceling again. I have also been watching Shrinking, but it's not really enough to keep me on the platform. Apple's content seems to be getting well known actors and then putting them into random shows and hoping that people will find out about them via word of mouth or something. There is also basically no back catalog worth watching like there is with other streaming services.
- ssijak 2y ago
  Tiny world is amazing
skhunted 2y ago
I believe Apple has some fantastic shows. Severance, Tehran, Silo, Slow Horses, Liason, Physical, For All Mankind (season 1).
- AndroidKitKat 2y ago
  If you haven't already, check out Dark Matter, too!
  - skhunted 2y ago

wellthisisgreat 2y ago

apple tv tv shows are generally bad, neutered "content"

fmajid 2y ago
And censored to appease the Chinese Communist Party.

gjsman-1000 2y ago

If anyone wants the ultimate case study in failed Apple business expansions, go back and watch the March 2019 event (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZmBoMZFC8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZmBoMZFC8g). Apple TV+, Apple Card, Apple News+, and Apple Arcade where all launched there. All have been, for Apple's size and scale, business debacles. Apple TV+'s debacles are well documented in this post, Apple Card is in the news today for incompetence (and has lost billions from Goldman Sachs, and has never launched outside the US), Apple News+ is doing okay with 19 million subscribers, and Apple Arcade has caused no shortage of public publisher ire (#1). Edit for #1: Apple Arcade has been a dumpster fire on the backend... https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/07/31/apple-arcade-developers-say-working-with-apple-is-like-being-in-an-abusive-relationship https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/07/31/apple-arcade-deve... https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/10/08/ex-app-store-head-says-apple-arcade-violates-apples-own-policies https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/10/08/ex-app-store-head... https://mobilegamer.biz/inside-apple-arcade-axed-games-declining-payouts-disillusioned-studios-and-an-uncertain-future/ https://mobilegamer.biz/inside-apple-arcade-axed-games-decli... https://mobilegamer.biz/inside-apple-arcade-again-late-payments-stonewalled-studios-terrible-tech-support-and-vision-pro-woes/ https://mobilegamer.biz/inside-apple-arcade-again-late-payme...

yial 2y ago
Apple Card doesn’t seem like a loss for Apple and customers however. Just Goldman Sachs. Though it does seem like Apple may have given GS overly optimistic data. Apple Arcade from a user standpoint seems okay. (I have only played two games from it, but keep the subscription for other family members). Apple TV I forget about, even though I have enjoyed some great content on it. News, while I have it, I have never used. Same with Apple Music. (Which I think is in the same bundle of things).
- Apocryphon 2y ago
  Wonder what's the most dispensable Apple service. I'd guess either Apple News or Apple Fitness+. I don't think these Apple One services are chipping away hugely from Apple's bottom line, but it almost feels a little like a retread of the '90s when they were making everything from the Newton to printers to the Pippin. At least software services are cheaper to build than real gear!

RandallBrown 2y ago

> “If you’re a fan of a show on Apple TV,” says Ray, “you have this fear that it’s not being appreciated, it’s not being seen, and you have to tell people about it because the platform itself isn’t going to do it.” I've never had this issue with Apple TV shows.

karaterobot 2y ago
Or even shows in general! There's so much TV now, I don't care who is watching what I'm watching. And shows seem to get renewed or not based on opaque processes and metrics I don't feel capable of knowing, let alone supporting.

bluetidepro 2y ago

Whatever the reason may be, the article outlines a few possibilities, I do agree there is a ton of great content on Apple TV+ that people are sleeping on. I recently watched "The Morning Show", "For All Mankind", and "Presumed Innocent." All were absolutely incredible shows, and none of my friends had heard of them (people who are usually very up to date with shows) furthering that their marketing is not the best for their tv content. Ted Lasso seems to be the only show of theirs that I've felt like broke through all the noise and is most widely known. However, I do think they have been marketing their movies a lot better. One the new movies "Wolfs" with Brad Pitt, and George Clooney had billboards all over my city. I know many people that did watch that the first week it came out.

number6 2y ago
For all mankind is a great show - nobody ever heard of it, but it's great

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Apocryphon 2y ago

Ted Lasso, For All Mankind, and maybe Severance aside, I'm not sure if there's much mass market awareness of Apple TV+ shows. But I'm also uncertain whether any of the streaming services aside from Netflix, Amazon Prime, (HBO) Max, Disney+, and maybe Hulu via brands like FX are able to successfully market their original content. Paramount+ maybe via Star Trek and the one-man empire that is Taylor Sheridan and his Sheridanverse (the Yellowstoneverse?), but that seems like a more limited IP stable than Disney's. There's a lot of noise, a lot of subscription fees, and a lot of losers. Apple might've produced Killers of the Flower Moon and slapped their name on Coda, but they're in a completely saturated and user-fatigued market.

giancarlostoro 2y ago

I don't know but Frog and Toad is one of my two year olds favorite shows, as is If You Give a Mouse a Cookie on Amazon. Both based on books, both really well done in my opinion.

Apocryphon 2y ago
Apple was really onto something in getting the streaming rights to all of the Peanuts content. The Snoopy Show is quality old-fashioned, non-hyperkinetic, mellow cartoon toddler fodder.
- mangodrunk 2y ago
  I agree. The Snoopy Show seasons 1 and 2 were great, and the third was good. I am hoping they will release another season of Snoopy in Space.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  Yeah, I really enjoyed one of their holiday movies too (Ryan Reynolds is in it, I forgot the name), I hope they keep it up with just introducing just high quality content.

23B1 2y ago

Apple has always been kind of not great at marketing, simply because their attitude has always been "the product markets itself." That isn't to say they don't, it's just a cultural attitude inside the company. It's a crying shame because their content teams have obviously great taste and are willing to experiment, and they must be pulling their hair out over this, but yeah – AAPL should not only do more and better marketing, but consider licensing their content out in a limited fashion to draw people in, especially if they're going to maintain 'the product markets itself' – I can still buy iPods in BEst Buy, for an example. People WANT apple to succeed on this content front. The Apple Vision program especially would benefit from high quality content, well-marketed, especially to drive adoption and thus reduce cost; amazing immersive/interactive content is the killer app for AR/VR if you ask me. Let silly Zuck make dumb avatars and fake lowbrow games, if I'm going to project content directly onto my eyeballs, let it be Oscar-worthy.

ilamont 2y ago
I think the other part of the problem is Apple historically has such tight control over marketing and messaging. It does not encourage its people to work on something on the fly, experimenting with new channels or formats, or delegating to local agencies.
aorona 2y ago
I think it was their exceptional design in the 2000s. They were never the first, but they were exceptional at appearing to be an innovator on the originality of their product design. I have not been impressed with apple design innovation for some time though, they've gotten stale.
- 23B1 2y ago
  Much of the innovation, for better or worse, happens in miniaturization, power & thermal management, and supply chain. Apple's inventory turns are insane.
some_random 2y ago
I don't really think that's true, Apple has always marketed quite aggressively. In fact they invented (or at least popularized) the CEO keynote ad to say nothing of their history of more traditional ads going all the way back to their 1984 ad [1]. As for the AVP, they pretty clearly want it to be a productivity thing as opposed to a video game machine that every other consumer VR product is, which is consistent with their historic ambivalence to video games. In fact, I'd say that it's Zuck et al who are making "Oscar-worthy" VR experiences (or at least enabling them), while Apple's are basic and derivative [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALOn35L3OMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALOn35L3OMs

wvenable 2y ago

Apple TV+ library is also incredibly small -- there's little excuse to go back and see what new shows are in there because there usually aren't any. I wonder how many people are burnt out on dramas that have 8-10 episode seasons, end on a cliff hanger, and you have to wait 1-2 years for the next season. At this point, I've just stopped watching any series that isn't "done" regardless of the streaming service.

badgersnake 2y ago
> Apple TV+ library is also incredibly small That’s fine, it’s small but mostly high quality. How much TV do you want to watch?
- posterguy 2y ago
  What does this question aim to illustrate? I don't personally watch any tv these days but recall being in my 20s and having less obligation, burning through shows with my spare time. If someone said "more than they offer", what possible retort could you have?
- wvenable 2y ago
  High quality is not enough. I've watched a few Apple TV shows and I agree that they are high quality but that doesn't mean I want to watch them all. Many of them simply don't interest me or suit my mood. With just a few notable exceptions most Apple TV+ shows, while ostensibly different genres, all kind feel like they fit in the same box.
- _fs 2y ago
  I don't think that op is implying anything wrong with a small library. It's more that you don't open the app and browse it. New shows that might be available are unknown, simply because you have not opened the app on your TV. Because of this, to save money, users will only subscribe for a month, then wait a year before they resub to find new shows. I often open Netflix and just browse new additions. I can do this often, because I know the library will add new shows and movies every week.
2y ago

gwbas1c 2y ago

Every time I hear about some show, what goes through my head are: 1: Do I need to buy another subscription? 2: Will I need to sit through ads? If the answer is yes to either question, I'm not interested. I already have more TV that I want to watch than I can watch. (I don't mind paying for shows outright, though.)

financetechbro 2y ago
I can’t imagine how it’s posible to watch anything with such restrictions (assuming no pirating is involved)
- gwbas1c 2y ago
  I used to be able to just buy a season of a show for $20-ish. Much cheaper than a subscription, and significantly cheaper than traditional cable. I don't want to have to manage subscriptions.

aorona 2y ago

The walled garden certainly keeps me out of the apple ecosystem. I love MacOS but I don't want to pay a premium for vendor lock-in and I infer that most (if not all) apple products are double-edged in that manner.

jghn 2y ago
I watch Apple TV+ on my Roku. No Apple hardware required
- badgersnake 2y ago
  It’s surprising how many people think you have to have an Apple device to stream Apple TV.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    Apple kind of did that to themselves. Even the name "Apple TV" isn't doing them any favors. https://www.apple.com/tv-home/ https://www.apple.com/tv-home/
  - baggachipz 2y ago
    I personally think this is the major reason their ratings are so low. My parents want to watch Ted Lasso, and I told them to subscribe and watch it. "We can't, we have a roku, and I'm not paying $200 for another box." Imagine millions doing this and you see the result.
  - consteval 2y ago
    To be fair the device and service have, like, the same name. Assuming some relationship between them is obvious. Also, this is Apple, the guys who are very dedicated to pairing hardware and software together.

bitshiftfaced 2y ago

Is there yet a convenient way to watch Apple TV with Chromecast?

ISV_Damocles 2y ago

This article touched on a point that I feel is very relevant: unexpected show cancellations, apparently now happening for Apple TV+, as well. Netflix and Disney+ trained me to not even watch a show until it's concluded because it could get cancelled and I don't want to invest my small amount of free time on entertainment that might not even finish. It does produce a self-fulfilling prophecy where people with the same mindset as me on this do the same, and then the rating for something I (and probably they) are interested in aren't high enough and it gets cancelled. What should worry them, though, is that it also led to the final step for them; I cancelled my Netflix and Disney+ subscriptions with no intention of renewing them around a year ago. The end result is that "TV series"-style shows are effectively dead to me; I've shifted my time on them mostly to novels (that are basically behind-the-curve on this trend, hopefully forever), followed by single-player video games, and finally movies. (Why didn't movies take the first slot? Because I'm only willing/able to give 30-60 minutes of continuous time to entertainment most of the time, and it's very unsatisfying to pause a movie to resume later.) The continuous, immediate feedback on series performance coupled with a reputation of acting on that feedback immediately is killing the traditional television medium. On top of all of that, Apple TV+ has the added albatross of requiring their hardware for the shows, as if they were somehow a siren song to get people more tightly nestled into their ecosystem, and therefore dooming their shows to failure, at least amongst people who don't want to pay for overpriced hardware running software of degrading quality over the years (I switched to Linux in 2016 because it was more reliable than my MacBook Air; being better than Windows isn't good enough anymore, especially when Linux has a greater catalog of software these days). The needs of Apple, Inc weigh on their Apple TV division, they don't help it, and the sins of the streaming services against actually finishing a story further increase the trust deficit with Apple TV+. No amount of marketing is going to turn that around.

wvenable 2y ago
> On top of all of that, Apple TV+ has the added albatross of requiring their hardware for the shows You do not need Apple hardware to watch Apple TV+ -- I'm watching it just fine on my LG TV with WebOS.
stephenr 2y ago
> On top of all of that, Apple TV+ has the added albatross of requiring their hardware for the shows What are you talking about? You don't need an Apple device to watch their TV service. https://www.apple.com/by/apple-tv-app/devices/ https://www.apple.com/by/apple-tv-app/devices/

empath75 2y ago

They also made a massive deal with MLS that led to Messi coming to the US, and they've done a terrible job of getting an mainstream attention for that, even though it's a _great_ viewing experience -- you can watch every game, including 4 games at the same time if you want, and rewatch them whenever you want and the production quality is decent. If nothing else, they should be doing a full court press to get newspapers and ESPN etc to increase their coverage of MLS, even the Miami Herald is barely covering soccer and Miami is full of soccer fans and the team just set the all time single season points record and has one of the greatest athletes of all time on the field.

NickC25 2y ago
A few issues speaking as someone who lives in the greater 305 area: 1. Marketing is primarily to get people to come to games as opposed to watching the team on TV. Problem is, nobody wants to go because the stadium is 45 minutes away without traffic. 2. Fans of other teams aren't going to skip their own team's games to watch Messi. They've been able to watch him in a world-class team for close to 20 years, so now that he's nearly 40 and walks around most of the time, they aren't as interested. 3. Miami is full of soccer fans that are fans of their favorite teams from their home countries. 4. Ticket prices are outrageous. So are parking passes. The new stadium isn't even breaking ground yet. Miami fans are used to getting screwed, and hosting Messi in this current mess is not helping. 5. ESPN will never advertise for a competitor unless they are forced to. ESPN lost the MLS rights to Apple TV+.

NickC25 2y ago

Their content is OK outside the MLS deal. I will get roasted for this, but I enjoyed Foundation. Decent sci-fi with some cool visuals and interesting concepts. It just had nothing to do with the actual books.

weikju 2y ago
Yessss finally someone else who can see beyond “it’s different from the books!” And enjoy the actual show (not without its warts but still enjoyable)
- NickC25 2y ago
  Yeah! The show itself was pretty neat IMO. Neat world-building, the concepts were cool, the ship designs were cool, some of the acting was good, and overall, I think considering the density and depth of the source material, they did a pretty decent job. Again, it's not the same as the books. And that's OK. It's hard to tell the same story with images in a small timeframe than it is to do over the course of a half dozen books each 500+ pages in length.

AcerbicZero 2y ago

From my limited experience with Apple TV (Master of the Air and whatever that terrible Nasa one was) they seem to suffer from the same problem as most throw away TV shows on the streaming services - They lack writers who know anything about the subject matter and they couldn't care less about attention to detail. They attempt to cash in on the emotional value of these dramatic events without doing the legwork required to do it properly and so it falls flat upon its face.

z3ncyberpunk 2y ago

Well, to start, their TV shows are pretty terrible.