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I can’t repeat it enough: get a refurbished thin client instead of a SBC when you don’t care about GPIO and physical size isn’t a strict limit. The power draw i

I can’t repeat it enough: get a refurbished thin client instead of a SBC when you don’t care about GPIO and physical size isn’t a strict limit. The power draw isn’t as bad as you would think, x86 means you can install whatever you want, and you can just attach whatever storage you want over SATA without having to get more expensive hardware. It also includes a Case and PSU, often for a fraction of the price you would have to pay for a RasPi, especially when having to buy the RasPi, a Case, a PSU and a storage hat.

nusl 2y ago
Do you have an examples of good ones?
- voidUpdate 2y ago
  Lenovo make some pretty good small form factor x86 computers that can be picked up from ebay or similar for quite cheap. I forget exactly what model I got but I put ubuntu on it and it's been working fine for my applications (Home assistant, slowly migrating my website, might get another to use for NAS purposes)
  - nirav72 2y ago
    The Lenovo m720q or the m920q. What makes them amazing despite their small form factor, is that they actually have a 8x PCIe slot you can use once you get a riser card for it. Either to add a GPU, Additional NIC or a HBA card to connect to a JBOD. I'm using a m720q as a OPNSense router and its been great.
- avsteele 2y ago
  Look on e.g. Amazon/eBay for refurbished/refreshed Lenvovos and such. The m900 is a good choice.
- haunter 2y ago
  Dell, HP, Lenovo all make good x86 micro computers in the same form factor. A lot of these are available refurbished from enterprise sources so almost always in good conditions https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-tinyminimicro-home-lab-revolution/ https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-tinyminimic...
- scary-size 2y ago
  I'm using a Lenovo ThinkCentre M715Q (Ryzen 5 PRO 3,2 GHz, SSD 256 GB, RAM 8 GB). Bought it "used" for 180 EUR last year, though it was in almost perfect condition. Pretty happy with it so far. Runs a few cron jobs to generate some static sites, a local WordPress instance and pi-hole.
  - mon_ 2y ago
    That's at least twice as expensive as a new Pi.
    - echoangle 2y ago
      Not really, a Pi with 8GB RAM, case and Power Supply would be around $110 or so, right? With storage even more. And the mentioned PC is probably almost twice as fast as a Pi.
      - mon_ 2y ago
        With the PSU and a micro SD its about 90 EUR from The Pi Hut. A case isn't necessary but can be got for a tenner.
        echoangle 2y ago
        Got a link? The starter set with 32GB SD card and 8GB RAM is £112… so you still have to get an SSD and SATA hat, or the hat this post is about. Then you’re at atleast £125, and your performance will be much lower than the mentioned PC.
    - tehbeard 2y ago
      8gb pi 5 £76.80 27W PSU £11.60 case? - £9.60 SATA hat - £29.00 256GB SSD - £24 (reputable brand) Total is £151,or roughly €181
  - amelius 2y ago
    Does it have noisy fans?
- echoangle 2y ago
  I’m currently using a Futro S720 at home. It’s probably much slower than the latest RasPis, but I only paid 20€ (I actually bought multiple and got one for less than 10€!) for it. A RasPi starts 65€, with accessories you’re probably looking at 90€ or so. The S720 is fine for my use case, but you can also look at the S920, which should have better performance and can still be bought below 25€. If you add the smallest reasonable SSD (128 GB probably), you’re still at only 40€ total. All the prices are local to me of course, the availability might be different for you. Here’s a good page with info on many thin clients: https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/ https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/
- tmjwid 2y ago
  I use a HP T640 currently as my main "home lab" server and I'm planning on relocating the old Dell/Wyse Zx0Q to my mums as a backup server. I run about 20 different containers at the moment and run TVheadend bare metal with 3 DVB-T2 tuners. Both machine used USB3 - Sata enclosures for extra storage. Work greats. The old Dell machine even did transcoding in JellyFin for 1080p content, which was not expected given how crap the cpu is in it. Everything ran fast and stable. Check out Parky Towers for in-depth info on many different thin clients.
hggigg 2y ago
Yep that. Just a get a full whack Lenovo mini PC. If you need GPIO, unless it's high bandwidth stuff, a MCP2221A break out and I2C ADC/expander is probably better anyway. You can stack as many MCP23017 as you need on one of them.
- echoangle 2y ago
  Yes, if you actually do need GPIO, you can still just attach something external unless you need close-to-realtime reactions or high bandwidth. MCP2221A breakout boards seem to be relatively expensive though (about $10?), my ugly solution would be something like an ESP32 receiving commands over Serial and setting its GPIO pins. Very overkill and a waste of a very capable chip, but ESP32 start at $1.50 or so, that’s hard to beat.
  - hggigg 2y ago
    Good idea with the ESP32. As for the MCP2221A boards, there's a fresh supply of them for under $5 from China and they just work out of the box on Linux with off the shelf python library so no having to futz with the brains of the ESP32.
    - echoangle 2y ago
      Where are you getting the MCP2221A for $5? I’m assuming you’re in the US? Here in Germany, the lowest price I found was 11€ on AliExpress. Or is there a better source I’m missing?
      - hggigg 2y ago
        Aliexpress to UK. Can see £3.95 shipped here ($5.11)
diffeomorphism 2y ago
Used is much, much cheaper than new. For instance, for your futro 720 listed below it was about 350€ (new) and is about 14€ (used) nowadays. Also brand names and long term support cost quite a bit more. The new to new, well supported comparison would be - pi 5 + ssd hat + ssd + stuff (let's say 200 at the high end) - thinkcentre tiny m70q gen5 (about 450 with student discount; starting at 550 without) The second is obviously more powerful etc but it costs like three times as much. In other words: This has nothing at all to do with SBCs. If you don't need higher performance or support, buy used.
- echoangle 2y ago
  Technically correct, but you’re not going to find a used RasPi that’s much cheaper than a new one. So saying “buy used” is effectively the same thing I said.
geppetto 2y ago
I'm running a small website on a Cubiebord 1 SBC off my home internet connection. For such a scenario - home server on a desk, non demanding website such as a wiki - an SBC is a winner. Mine has been running since 2013 with no major outages apart from a few SD cards failing along the way (I had backups and a mirror on a cheap VPS). And I purposely choose not to use an SSD or a spinning disk (I could with that particular SBC) to save energy since that thing is always on and idles at around 2Watts. Noise and bulk were also a factor in my choice. There are no moving parts or spare components that can fail and indeed I didn't had any problem in ten years apart from SD cards. For 60€ - case included - it was a good deal.
rakoo 2y ago
Seconded, and I'll even add that you can buy second-hand laptops, they even have an included battery that will help you for short outages. But more importantly, buying second-hand anything is orders of magnitude better than a new Raspberry Pi, because most of the environmental impact is on the building of end devices. Re-using an old laptop you don't use anymore furthers its life. The impact of usage, whether it draws 2W or 50W, doesn't change much on that front. In any case, please stop buying new things, and re-use existing hardware instead of inducing even more pollution.
buccal 2y ago
If you want modern features and low power consumption you can get a new NUC style PC like MINISFORUM UN100L https://www.newegg.com/p/2SW-002G-000H0 https://www.newegg.com/p/2SW-002G-000H0. For $ 151 you get a computer with normal full size ports (there are options with 2 LAN ports, etc.), storage expansion capabilities and maybe Windows 11 license that is mentioned in manufacturer website.
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  I love these class of devices so much, and it's so cool seeing what a competitive landscape of devices have sprung up. The AMD APUs out now are amazing, and some of these folks have awesome cooling for them. Idles can be remarkably low (the monolithic APUs have a major leg up vs multichip for AMD). So, big fan. But. You need to be careful. What level of support if any these devices come with vary greatly. Beelink has pretty good bios updates, pretty regularly: good job. Minisforum almost never releases new bios/firmware. If there are stability or security fixes for your platform, minisforum wont give them to you. It's a terrible situation, and it's such a scary hidden gotcha most people don't consider when shopping. AMD continues to say the future is OpenSIL not closed AGESA, and that doesn't directly mean but starts to make it a consideration that we could maintain systems ourselves, even without manufacturer support. https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-openSIL-September-2024 https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-openSIL-September-2024
VariousPrograms 2y ago
The SBC can make sense depending on energy cost in your country if you just need a little 24/7 DNS or NAS. I have an SBC w/NVME that idles at 1.4W (~$2-3/yr) and an x86 server idling at 11W (~$20/yr). If you're really nickel and diming your power bill, the best choice is making better use of your existing gear followed by an SBC.

nusl 2y ago

Do you have an examples of good ones?

voidUpdate 2y ago
Lenovo make some pretty good small form factor x86 computers that can be picked up from ebay or similar for quite cheap. I forget exactly what model I got but I put ubuntu on it and it's been working fine for my applications (Home assistant, slowly migrating my website, might get another to use for NAS purposes)
- nirav72 2y ago
  The Lenovo m720q or the m920q. What makes them amazing despite their small form factor, is that they actually have a 8x PCIe slot you can use once you get a riser card for it. Either to add a GPU, Additional NIC or a HBA card to connect to a JBOD. I'm using a m720q as a OPNSense router and its been great.
avsteele 2y ago
Look on e.g. Amazon/eBay for refurbished/refreshed Lenvovos and such. The m900 is a good choice.
haunter 2y ago
Dell, HP, Lenovo all make good x86 micro computers in the same form factor. A lot of these are available refurbished from enterprise sources so almost always in good conditions https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-tinyminimicro-home-lab-revolution/ https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-tinyminimic...
scary-size 2y ago
I'm using a Lenovo ThinkCentre M715Q (Ryzen 5 PRO 3,2 GHz, SSD 256 GB, RAM 8 GB). Bought it "used" for 180 EUR last year, though it was in almost perfect condition. Pretty happy with it so far. Runs a few cron jobs to generate some static sites, a local WordPress instance and pi-hole.
- mon_ 2y ago
  That's at least twice as expensive as a new Pi.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Not really, a Pi with 8GB RAM, case and Power Supply would be around $110 or so, right? With storage even more. And the mentioned PC is probably almost twice as fast as a Pi.
    - mon_ 2y ago
      With the PSU and a micro SD its about 90 EUR from The Pi Hut. A case isn't necessary but can be got for a tenner.
      - echoangle 2y ago
        Got a link? The starter set with 32GB SD card and 8GB RAM is £112… so you still have to get an SSD and SATA hat, or the hat this post is about. Then you’re at atleast £125, and your performance will be much lower than the mentioned PC.
  - tehbeard 2y ago
    8gb pi 5 £76.80 27W PSU £11.60 case? - £9.60 SATA hat - £29.00 256GB SSD - £24 (reputable brand) Total is £151,or roughly €181
- amelius 2y ago
  Does it have noisy fans?
echoangle 2y ago
I’m currently using a Futro S720 at home. It’s probably much slower than the latest RasPis, but I only paid 20€ (I actually bought multiple and got one for less than 10€!) for it. A RasPi starts 65€, with accessories you’re probably looking at 90€ or so. The S720 is fine for my use case, but you can also look at the S920, which should have better performance and can still be bought below 25€. If you add the smallest reasonable SSD (128 GB probably), you’re still at only 40€ total. All the prices are local to me of course, the availability might be different for you. Here’s a good page with info on many thin clients: https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/ https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/
tmjwid 2y ago
I use a HP T640 currently as my main "home lab" server and I'm planning on relocating the old Dell/Wyse Zx0Q to my mums as a backup server. I run about 20 different containers at the moment and run TVheadend bare metal with 3 DVB-T2 tuners. Both machine used USB3 - Sata enclosures for extra storage. Work greats. The old Dell machine even did transcoding in JellyFin for 1080p content, which was not expected given how crap the cpu is in it. Everything ran fast and stable. Check out Parky Towers for in-depth info on many different thin clients.

hggigg 2y ago

Yep that. Just a get a full whack Lenovo mini PC. If you need GPIO, unless it's high bandwidth stuff, a MCP2221A break out and I2C ADC/expander is probably better anyway. You can stack as many MCP23017 as you need on one of them.

echoangle 2y ago
Yes, if you actually do need GPIO, you can still just attach something external unless you need close-to-realtime reactions or high bandwidth. MCP2221A breakout boards seem to be relatively expensive though (about $10?), my ugly solution would be something like an ESP32 receiving commands over Serial and setting its GPIO pins. Very overkill and a waste of a very capable chip, but ESP32 start at $1.50 or so, that’s hard to beat.
- hggigg 2y ago
  Good idea with the ESP32. As for the MCP2221A boards, there's a fresh supply of them for under $5 from China and they just work out of the box on Linux with off the shelf python library so no having to futz with the brains of the ESP32.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Where are you getting the MCP2221A for $5? I’m assuming you’re in the US? Here in Germany, the lowest price I found was 11€ on AliExpress. Or is there a better source I’m missing?
    - hggigg 2y ago
      Aliexpress to UK. Can see £3.95 shipped here ($5.11)

diffeomorphism 2y ago

Used is much, much cheaper than new. For instance, for your futro 720 listed below it was about 350€ (new) and is about 14€ (used) nowadays. Also brand names and long term support cost quite a bit more. The new to new, well supported comparison would be - pi 5 + ssd hat + ssd + stuff (let's say 200 at the high end) - thinkcentre tiny m70q gen5 (about 450 with student discount; starting at 550 without) The second is obviously more powerful etc but it costs like three times as much. In other words: This has nothing at all to do with SBCs. If you don't need higher performance or support, buy used.

echoangle 2y ago
Technically correct, but you’re not going to find a used RasPi that’s much cheaper than a new one. So saying “buy used” is effectively the same thing I said.

geppetto 2y ago

I'm running a small website on a Cubiebord 1 SBC off my home internet connection. For such a scenario - home server on a desk, non demanding website such as a wiki - an SBC is a winner. Mine has been running since 2013 with no major outages apart from a few SD cards failing along the way (I had backups and a mirror on a cheap VPS). And I purposely choose not to use an SSD or a spinning disk (I could with that particular SBC) to save energy since that thing is always on and idles at around 2Watts. Noise and bulk were also a factor in my choice. There are no moving parts or spare components that can fail and indeed I didn't had any problem in ten years apart from SD cards. For 60€ - case included - it was a good deal.

rakoo 2y ago

Seconded, and I'll even add that you can buy second-hand laptops, they even have an included battery that will help you for short outages. But more importantly, buying second-hand anything is orders of magnitude better than a new Raspberry Pi, because most of the environmental impact is on the building of end devices. Re-using an old laptop you don't use anymore furthers its life. The impact of usage, whether it draws 2W or 50W, doesn't change much on that front. In any case, please stop buying new things, and re-use existing hardware instead of inducing even more pollution.

buccal 2y ago

If you want modern features and low power consumption you can get a new NUC style PC like MINISFORUM UN100L https://www.newegg.com/p/2SW-002G-000H0 https://www.newegg.com/p/2SW-002G-000H0. For $ 151 you get a computer with normal full size ports (there are options with 2 LAN ports, etc.), storage expansion capabilities and maybe Windows 11 license that is mentioned in manufacturer website.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago
I love these class of devices so much, and it's so cool seeing what a competitive landscape of devices have sprung up. The AMD APUs out now are amazing, and some of these folks have awesome cooling for them. Idles can be remarkably low (the monolithic APUs have a major leg up vs multichip for AMD). So, big fan. But. You need to be careful. What level of support if any these devices come with vary greatly. Beelink has pretty good bios updates, pretty regularly: good job. Minisforum almost never releases new bios/firmware. If there are stability or security fixes for your platform, minisforum wont give them to you. It's a terrible situation, and it's such a scary hidden gotcha most people don't consider when shopping. AMD continues to say the future is OpenSIL not closed AGESA, and that doesn't directly mean but starts to make it a consideration that we could maintain systems ourselves, even without manufacturer support. https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-openSIL-September-2024 https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-openSIL-September-2024

VariousPrograms 2y ago

The SBC can make sense depending on energy cost in your country if you just need a little 24/7 DNS or NAS. I have an SBC w/NVME that idles at 1.4W (~$2-3/yr) and an x86 server idling at 11W (~$20/yr). If you're really nickel and diming your power bill, the best choice is making better use of your existing gear followed by an SBC.