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Do sanctions ever actually work as intended? To this casual bystander it seems like they usually hurt innocent citizens far more than the leaders of the usuall
by thayne 2y ago
Do sanctions ever actually work as intended?
To this casual bystander it seems like they usually hurt innocent citizens far more than the leaders of the usually authoritarion regime that it targets.
- Suppafly 2y ago>To this casual bystander it seems like they usually hurt innocent citizens far more than the leaders of the usually authoritarion regime that it targets. That's kinda the point. The common folk put pressure on their leaders to correct their behavior.
- thayne 2y agoThat assumes the common folk can put pressure on their leaders, which is usually not the case for countries targeted by sanctions from the US, which usually have autocratic or otherwise authoritarian governments.
- nradov 2y agoHistory is full of violent revolutions against autocratic governments. We should inflict maximum pain on the Russian populace. Be as cruel as possible. Keep the pressure on. Eventually it might pay off. And even if it doesn't work, it serves as an object lesson to other countries on the consequences of opposing US policies.
- throw-the-towel 2y agoSo, what you want is essentially pushing a whole country's population around for your own amusement? Very motivating, not gonna lie!
- account42 2y agoLike it or not, the leader derives his power from the populace. An autocrat is powerless without people going along.
- nradov 2y agoAmusement has nothing to do with it. This is one method among many for pursuing national geopolitical goals. It's a shame that the Russian populace has to suffer, I bear them no ill will. But if they ever want to get out of international sanctions then they know what they need to do.
- protomolecule 2y ago[flagged]
- wiseowise 2y agoBuy a ticket to Ukraine right about now and ask Ukrainians how amused are they. And don’t forget to visit every country that had to take millions of refugees.
- protomolecule 2y ago[flagged]
- s1mpson 2y agoIf that is truly the case: either people in Russia are unable to construct logical chains and understand why certain things are happening (and in that case one should seriously question their ability to contribute meaningful code). OR, they do understand the reasons but choose to support their leader's actions (in which case them having privileges in the project is a major security risk). Which one is it?
- protomolecule 2y agoPeople in Russia weren't born three years ago and can remember things. When the US illegally invaded and devastated Iraq in 2003 under the fake pretense of WMD weapons, no sanctions against the US from the other Western countries followed. And of course the US didn't sanction itself and the American people reelected the president who started that war instead of surrendering him to the International Criminal Court. So, if one constructs a logical chain from that, invading a country doesn't lead to any punishment, neither internationally nor domestically.
- account42 2y agoAnd people in Russia's neighboring countries also remember maany things.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- wiseowise 2y agoWhat you’re saying is that majority of Russians never visited basic school? Because you learn «минус на минус не дает плюс» somewhere around start of mathematics.
- riehwvfbk 2y ago"Here, we'll hurt you so you'll go fight the guy who claims he's the only one protecting you from us." Has that strategy ever worked?
- Wytwwww 2y agoSouth Africa? Rhodesia? But sure.. usually it doesn't really work out. Of course weakening the target country economically, politically and militarily is still better than nothing,
- wiseowise 2y agoRussians had every opportunity to kick out nuclear gnome before sanctions kicked in, but alas.
- tryauuum 2y agowestern people had plenty of time to stop buying russian oil after the Crimea was stolen in 2014, but alas, they wanted to sponsor russian military and police so badly
- protomolecule 2y ago[flagged]
- Wytwwww 2y ago> innocent citizens Do you not think that at least 50% of all people in Russia would vote for Putin or his affiliates (even if the elections weren't falsified)? Therefore most people in Russia are certainly not innocent.
- homebrewer 2y agoWe don't know and can't know that, there hasn't been a single election without major falsifications since about 2004. I personally don't know anyone who voted for him, but I don't keep many ties to the "lowest classes". If your image of the Russian society is based solely on US left-wing media, then it has even less resemblance to reality.
- Wytwwww 2y agoEven (pseudo)opposition polls generally show that most people support Putin? Yes I understand that polls in such a society might not be particularly meaningful. But I'm not even saying that most Russians actively support the government, implicit support (i.e. being unwilling to risk anything to change the status quo) is almost as good. > "lowest classes" I find it hard to believe that there aren't plenty of people who are middle class and above who support the regime. After all Russia's economy is almost entirely based on raw resources extraction and (now) military related industries. > If your image of the Russian society is based solely on US left-wing media And yours is based on Kremlin propaganda channels and media sources? See what I did there? Both assumptions are equally valid/invalid and neither contributes anything to a meaningful discussion besides immediately shutting down the possibility of one existing.
- wiseowise 2y ago> We don't know and can't know that, there hasn't been a single election without major falsifications since about 2004. We can and know that. Just talk with your fellow Russians.
- whimsicalism 2y ago> most people in Russia are certainly not innocent. Nor are Americans, by this standard - what we've done directly in Syria & Iraq is quite bad and enjoyed substantial popular support.