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>I think you can do much better. Not to be a troll, but I really think they cannot. The last "good" product they made was SQL-Server/Exchange/Windows2000, and

>I think you can do much better. Not to be a troll, but I really think they cannot. The last "good" product they made was SQL-Server/Exchange/Windows2000, and that was a long time ago.

renegade-otter 2y ago
Just judging by the deteriorating state of the Windows OS... I know these are different divisions, but it does say something about the culture. Windows has always been a dumpster fire, but when it was built by nerds and not managers, it felt more, uh, tolerable.
- phkahler 2y ago
  >> Windows has always been a dumpster fire.. It was always a dumpster fire for security, but it did have a pretty good UI and functionality at say XP-SP3, but now the UX had been thrown on the fire too.
  - renegade-otter 2y ago
    I remember enjoying using Windows 2000/XP but I feel like that's my nostalgia talking. I was customizing a new installation for days, messing with registry keys and obscure settings dialogs. It was never that user-friendly to begin with. After having used MacOS for the last few years, I do not miss the hassle. To be fair, not a lot of things were user-friendly back then, and Windows was the standard consumer OS for a good reason. It was solidly OKAY. Using the latest versions of Windows, however, is just infuriating even without any complicated setup.
    - Gud 2y ago
      Absolutely not your nostalgia talking. I’m as OS agnostic as they come and Win2k was the last true great desktop OS. I now use FreeBSD almost exclusively, with miscellaneous VM guests.
      - bbkane 2y ago
        I actually REALLY LIKE MacOS, especially workspace/window management when using Rectangles. So much so that I'm trying to recreate it on Linux (I don't want to buy a new Mac when I have a perfectly good gaming desktop to repurpose for dev work).
        Gud 2y ago
        MacOS is pretty good, can’t argue with you there.
      - eitally 2y ago
        I grew up with an Apple II, then switched to Windows from 3.11 for Workgroups all the way up to Vista, at which point I switched to desktop Linux (variety of distros, but mostly ended up on Kubuntu in my house and Mint for family). Then it was 8 years of ChromeOS. The past couple of years I've been on MacBooks and, although there are quirks I don't really like, I can't argue with the fact that it mostly "just works", which is really the primary requirement of any operating system.
        Gud 2y ago
        Still, I would say peak Win2k was faster, cleaner and more no nonsense than modern MacOS. I use macs as well, they are not at all as snappy as windows 2000 was.
- rightbyte 2y ago
  > but when it was built by nerds and not managers, it felt more, uh, tolerable. The 'WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN' era. Ye. Way more relatable than todays malware riddled joke of an OS. It is too bad since the Windows 7 foundation seems OK.
mrweasel 2y ago
While I can think of a few other, dotnet and Visual Studio, I think that you're generally correct. Microsoft, Google and others, have created a culture that are no longer able to produce high quality solutions, because they can't focus on a single vision for their products. Or in some cases the vision does not align with creating good products. SQL Server is a really good example, it's highly focused, it exists outside the current hype bobble, there's no advertising, no subscription, just a database server and it's a really good product. Exchange sucks, because it been pulled in to new subscription based world, and it's going to suffer for it.
- dijit 2y ago
  Famously, visual studio gets worse- not better, with time. https://youtu.be/GC-0tCy4P1U https://youtu.be/GC-0tCy4P1U
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    Well, it gets better and worse, with a worsening trend. It's not monotonic, so one can easily point "hey, VS XX is better than VS YY for some XX > YY".
  - mrweasel 2y ago
    I would like to retro-actively remove my categorization of Visual Studio. That was an absolutely enjoyable rant and demonstration.
- j16sdiz 2y ago
  dotnet is a mixed bag of good and bad. VSCode catch on, but i would rather have Atom instead. Exchange have beth broken before migrating to cod
  - Tempest1981 2y ago
    > migrating to cod cod? Call of Duty?
- preciousoo 2y ago
cookingrobot 2y ago
I worked on Windows 2000, thanks! But Windows 7 was better.
- BSDobelix 2y ago
  With Windows2000 i mean Windows-NT-Line without BS, so yeah XP(after SP2) and Win7 was probably better.
TiredOfLife 2y ago
Windows Terminal. VS Code. You clearly are a troll.
- BSDobelix 2y ago
  Trillion dollar company creates editor and terminal...thanks for proofing my point.
  - TiredOfLife 2y ago
    Thanks for proving my point.

>I think you can do much better. Not to be a troll, but I really think they cannot. The last "good" product they made was SQL-Server/Exchange/Windows2000, and that was a long time ago.

renegade-otter 2y ago

Just judging by the deteriorating state of the Windows OS... I know these are different divisions, but it does say something about the culture. Windows has always been a dumpster fire, but when it was built by nerds and not managers, it felt more, uh, tolerable.

phkahler 2y ago
>> Windows has always been a dumpster fire.. It was always a dumpster fire for security, but it did have a pretty good UI and functionality at say XP-SP3, but now the UX had been thrown on the fire too.
- renegade-otter 2y ago
  I remember enjoying using Windows 2000/XP but I feel like that's my nostalgia talking. I was customizing a new installation for days, messing with registry keys and obscure settings dialogs. It was never that user-friendly to begin with. After having used MacOS for the last few years, I do not miss the hassle. To be fair, not a lot of things were user-friendly back then, and Windows was the standard consumer OS for a good reason. It was solidly OKAY. Using the latest versions of Windows, however, is just infuriating even without any complicated setup.
  - Gud 2y ago
    Absolutely not your nostalgia talking. I’m as OS agnostic as they come and Win2k was the last true great desktop OS. I now use FreeBSD almost exclusively, with miscellaneous VM guests.
    - bbkane 2y ago
      I actually REALLY LIKE MacOS, especially workspace/window management when using Rectangles. So much so that I'm trying to recreate it on Linux (I don't want to buy a new Mac when I have a perfectly good gaming desktop to repurpose for dev work).
      - Gud 2y ago
        MacOS is pretty good, can’t argue with you there.
    - eitally 2y ago
      I grew up with an Apple II, then switched to Windows from 3.11 for Workgroups all the way up to Vista, at which point I switched to desktop Linux (variety of distros, but mostly ended up on Kubuntu in my house and Mint for family). Then it was 8 years of ChromeOS. The past couple of years I've been on MacBooks and, although there are quirks I don't really like, I can't argue with the fact that it mostly "just works", which is really the primary requirement of any operating system.
      - Gud 2y ago
        Still, I would say peak Win2k was faster, cleaner and more no nonsense than modern MacOS. I use macs as well, they are not at all as snappy as windows 2000 was.
rightbyte 2y ago
> but when it was built by nerds and not managers, it felt more, uh, tolerable. The 'WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN' era. Ye. Way more relatable than todays malware riddled joke of an OS. It is too bad since the Windows 7 foundation seems OK.

mrweasel 2y ago

While I can think of a few other, dotnet and Visual Studio, I think that you're generally correct. Microsoft, Google and others, have created a culture that are no longer able to produce high quality solutions, because they can't focus on a single vision for their products. Or in some cases the vision does not align with creating good products. SQL Server is a really good example, it's highly focused, it exists outside the current hype bobble, there's no advertising, no subscription, just a database server and it's a really good product. Exchange sucks, because it been pulled in to new subscription based world, and it's going to suffer for it.

dijit 2y ago
Famously, visual studio gets worse- not better, with time. https://youtu.be/GC-0tCy4P1U https://youtu.be/GC-0tCy4P1U
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  Well, it gets better and worse, with a worsening trend. It's not monotonic, so one can easily point "hey, VS XX is better than VS YY for some XX > YY".
- mrweasel 2y ago
  I would like to retro-actively remove my categorization of Visual Studio. That was an absolutely enjoyable rant and demonstration.
j16sdiz 2y ago
dotnet is a mixed bag of good and bad. VSCode catch on, but i would rather have Atom instead. Exchange have beth broken before migrating to cod
- Tempest1981 2y ago
  > migrating to cod cod? Call of Duty?
preciousoo 2y ago

cookingrobot 2y ago

I worked on Windows 2000, thanks! But Windows 7 was better.

BSDobelix 2y ago
With Windows2000 i mean Windows-NT-Line without BS, so yeah XP(after SP2) and Win7 was probably better.

TiredOfLife 2y ago

Windows Terminal. VS Code. You clearly are a troll.

BSDobelix 2y ago
Trillion dollar company creates editor and terminal...thanks for proofing my point.
- TiredOfLife 2y ago
  Thanks for proving my point.