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You’re disconnected from reality. You say titles cost nothing. You really don’t think it costs companies money to progress employees from engineer to senior to

by prng2021 2y ago

You’re disconnected from reality. You say titles cost nothing. You really don’t think it costs companies money to progress employees from engineer to senior to staff and so on? You seem to agree title inflation is common and you say fancy titles are given out like candy. If everyone easily gets promotions, what does that say about someone who’s not given such easy candy?

bruce511 2y ago
If you work at a company that has a bunch of pay levels, and levels are tied to titles then sure I guess you see titles as "meaningful". (Personally I think the pay part us the meaningful part, but hey, whatever floats your boat.) I'm not sure your title has any meaning beyond your company though. Where I work, pay is based on skills, experience, quality and value of work produced. I can call myself "programming super-god" if I like but that has no effect on my pay. Some companies just have pay levels and you're an L5 or whatever.
- conductr 2y ago
  > I'm not sure your title has any meaning beyond your company though. So you are ignorant to the reality that it is meaningful and has some value, that value is debatable and subjective, but it can and does have actual value. You're stuck on your own narrow minded meritocracy mindset, which is noble and pure, but also extremely naive to how the world actually works at large. > Where I work, pay is based on skills, experience, quality and value of work produced. Reducing to N=1 doesn't help your argument. Quite the opposite. I think we're all in agreement it would be convenient if titles and levels were normalized across the industry / globe but they never will be. I'm glad you found an employer that works for your preference. But if you ever search widely for another job, and want to optimize your earnings, a big title will come in handy and have value. You can stick to your guns, but you are experiencing an opportunity cost by being stubborn on this and not seeking bigger titles. You'll never know how much more you could have been paid had you came with a big title and made them think you were worth way more than they wanted to pay.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Does your workplace have salary transparency? If not, this setup sounds designed to limit the average employee's capacity to negotiate. In a world where pay is tied to public-facing titles I can look around, recognize that I'm doing more and better work than people with a higher title than me, and push for a promotion. In the world you describe (absent salary transparency), how do you know if you're getting underpaid relative to peers?

bruce511 2y ago

If you work at a company that has a bunch of pay levels, and levels are tied to titles then sure I guess you see titles as "meaningful". (Personally I think the pay part us the meaningful part, but hey, whatever floats your boat.) I'm not sure your title has any meaning beyond your company though. Where I work, pay is based on skills, experience, quality and value of work produced. I can call myself "programming super-god" if I like but that has no effect on my pay. Some companies just have pay levels and you're an L5 or whatever.

conductr 2y ago
> I'm not sure your title has any meaning beyond your company though. So you are ignorant to the reality that it is meaningful and has some value, that value is debatable and subjective, but it can and does have actual value. You're stuck on your own narrow minded meritocracy mindset, which is noble and pure, but also extremely naive to how the world actually works at large. > Where I work, pay is based on skills, experience, quality and value of work produced. Reducing to N=1 doesn't help your argument. Quite the opposite. I think we're all in agreement it would be convenient if titles and levels were normalized across the industry / globe but they never will be. I'm glad you found an employer that works for your preference. But if you ever search widely for another job, and want to optimize your earnings, a big title will come in handy and have value. You can stick to your guns, but you are experiencing an opportunity cost by being stubborn on this and not seeking bigger titles. You'll never know how much more you could have been paid had you came with a big title and made them think you were worth way more than they wanted to pay.
lolinder 2y ago
Does your workplace have salary transparency? If not, this setup sounds designed to limit the average employee's capacity to negotiate. In a world where pay is tied to public-facing titles I can look around, recognize that I'm doing more and better work than people with a higher title than me, and push for a promotion. In the world you describe (absent salary transparency), how do you know if you're getting underpaid relative to peers?