3 ms·

If we're making specific wishes, we should wish that it doesn't happen again but stays fairly private--after all, lots of people still die for need of donor org

by khafra 2y ago

If we're making specific wishes, we should wish that it doesn't happen again but stays fairly private--after all, lots of people still die for need of donor organs, and if lots of organ donors decide they'd rather be safe from naive utilitarian-dilemma doctors, that number will grow.

OutOfHere 2y ago
In other words, you are okay with secretly murdering other people to steal their organs. There is no set of ethics that allows it.
- khafra 2y ago
  1. You missed the part where I said "we should wish that it doesn't happen again." It's right up there in the first sentence. It's not ok to murder 1 person to save 5. 2. Naive utilitarians may think it's ok, because they don't consider second-order effects. If you do consider second-order effects, then even for a utilitarian it could only be ok if the world was already in a terrible, untrusting state where people would rather die than go to a doctor without an armed escort.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    > we should wish that it doesn't happen again but stays fairly private As above, you merely wished for it to not come out into the public view. That's what you meant by "didn't happen again". It's exactly what a criminally minded wannabe murderer would say.
im3w1l 2y ago
Unfortunatly trying to keep it on the downlow just serves to enable it. We have seen this in many communities that tries to hide wrongdoing. Dirty laundry needs to be aired.
- khafra 2y ago
  I mean, that's a wish you could make, that publicizing wrongdoing would prevent it. Realistically, though, publicizing it will politicize it. Someone, somewhere, will flip a coin, and then depending on your party you'll have to be either pro-murdering-people-for-their-organs, or anti. People will fight online, friendships will be ruined, families torn apart, and at the end of it there will be fewer organs getting donated, and somehow the same amount of donors getting murdered. That's why I said, if you're making unrealistic wishes anyway, why not wish for something better? In fact, why not wish for gene therapy that makes people regenerate any injured organ, like Wolverine?
perihelions 2y ago
No; donors have a right to be fully informed about the system they're entrusting their lives to. It's immoral to hide truth in order to manipulate people into acting in ways you want them to act.
g-b-r 2y ago
This is not a lottery, you can prevent these things with improvements to the protocol, adequate accountability and transparency And that's how you gain the trust of potential donors; it's the fault of those who didn't do that earlier if the donors numbers were to drop
- khafra 2y ago
  > it's the fault of those who didn't do that earlier if the donors numbers were to drop It's certainly the fault of the ghouls hacking up living people, yes. But I'm not speaking as an organ donation facilitator; I have no connection to those organizations. I'm speaking as someone who might, someday, need some organ donated to continue living, and who would be unhappy if there were none available.
  - g-b-r 2y ago
    Well, I on the other hand, would also be unhappy if my organs were taken while I'm alive. Interestingly though, those accidents are probably much less likely to happen to wealthy people

by khafra 2y ago

OutOfHere 2y ago

In other words, you are okay with secretly murdering other people to steal their organs. There is no set of ethics that allows it.

khafra 2y ago
1. You missed the part where I said "we should wish that it doesn't happen again." It's right up there in the first sentence. It's not ok to murder 1 person to save 5. 2. Naive utilitarians may think it's ok, because they don't consider second-order effects. If you do consider second-order effects, then even for a utilitarian it could only be ok if the world was already in a terrible, untrusting state where people would rather die than go to a doctor without an armed escort.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  > we should wish that it doesn't happen again but stays fairly private As above, you merely wished for it to not come out into the public view. That's what you meant by "didn't happen again". It's exactly what a criminally minded wannabe murderer would say.

im3w1l 2y ago

Unfortunatly trying to keep it on the downlow just serves to enable it. We have seen this in many communities that tries to hide wrongdoing. Dirty laundry needs to be aired.

khafra 2y ago
I mean, that's a wish you could make, that publicizing wrongdoing would prevent it. Realistically, though, publicizing it will politicize it. Someone, somewhere, will flip a coin, and then depending on your party you'll have to be either pro-murdering-people-for-their-organs, or anti. People will fight online, friendships will be ruined, families torn apart, and at the end of it there will be fewer organs getting donated, and somehow the same amount of donors getting murdered. That's why I said, if you're making unrealistic wishes anyway, why not wish for something better? In fact, why not wish for gene therapy that makes people regenerate any injured organ, like Wolverine?

perihelions 2y ago

No; donors have a right to be fully informed about the system they're entrusting their lives to. It's immoral to hide truth in order to manipulate people into acting in ways you want them to act.

g-b-r 2y ago

This is not a lottery, you can prevent these things with improvements to the protocol, adequate accountability and transparency And that's how you gain the trust of potential donors; it's the fault of those who didn't do that earlier if the donors numbers were to drop

khafra 2y ago
> it's the fault of those who didn't do that earlier if the donors numbers were to drop It's certainly the fault of the ghouls hacking up living people, yes. But I'm not speaking as an organ donation facilitator; I have no connection to those organizations. I'm speaking as someone who might, someday, need some organ donated to continue living, and who would be unhappy if there were none available.
- g-b-r 2y ago
  Well, I on the other hand, would also be unhappy if my organs were taken while I'm alive. Interestingly though, those accidents are probably much less likely to happen to wealthy people