7 ms·

I wish I had any idea on how to deal with the Elon situation. I genuinely believe SpaceX wouldn't be achieving nearly what it is without him, but he's obviously

I wish I had any idea on how to deal with the Elon situation. I genuinely believe SpaceX wouldn't be achieving nearly what it is without him, but he's obviously also going way off the deep end these days and it's uncomfortable to watch one man with that much power getting increasingly unhinged. It's something I constantly wonder about, I strongly believe we should be taxing the absolute shit out of people and working hard to flatten society, but I also worry that we need insane people in power sometimes to get stuff done. Starship (hell, even F9) is an astonishing achievement and there's zero chance that innovation would be possible anywhere except SpaceX or another entity with very strong leadership (Valve or Steve Jobs' Apple if they made rockets)

Mistletoe 2y ago
https://www.reuters.com/technology/spacex-employees-denounce-ceo-musk-distraction-letter-2022-06-16/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/spacex-employees-denounce... https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-employees-elon-musk-focus-twitter-ceo-2023-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-employees-elon-musk-f... >SpaceX employees say they are relieved Elon Musk is focused on Twitter because there is a calmer work environment at the rocket company He sounds like that kind of boss we have all had where you actively avoid interacting with him because his ideas will be stupid and get your project off track. I think SpaceX succeeds despite having to deal with current Elon.
- seizethecheese 2y ago
  Having read the Isaacson biography, Elon’s management style is essentially to be hands off then show up in “surges” of extreme work. It makes sense that most people would be happy when surges end. There’s also essentially zero chance his organizations succeed in spite of him. This is just wishful ignorance.
  - larkost 2y ago
    What evidence do you offer that there is no chance of SpaceX succeeding in spite of Elon Musk? I really don't have enough detailed knowledge about his actual contributions to the various companies he runs. But given the sheer number of projects at the companies he runs I don't find it hard to believe that he is largely not responsible for the technical successes. Again, I have no evidence for it, but it would not be hard to believe. Do you have anything other than faith for that statement?
    - throw4950sh06 2y ago
      There are plenty of very respected people confirming that Elon is extremely hands on and key to Starship development. Also SpaceX engineers who worked directly with him on Reddit - take a look, it's interesting to read.
    - dotnet00 2y ago
      The fact that none of the other space startups prior to SpaceX, which had access to more resources, succeeded? Same goes with Tesla. You have to really stretch believability to argue that the one factor in common between two companies which broke into extremely hard to break into industries and ushered in paradigm shifts, happened to do so for no reason related to that common factor, let alone arguing that they did so in-spite of that common factor. We also have pretty detailed books on the history of SpaceX, written from employee interviews, which also indicate that Musk is fairly hands on. There's also this tweet from the designer of the Merlin rocket engine that is usually thrown around when these kinds of claims are made: https://old.reddit.com/r/SpaceXMasterrace/comments/15am9pl/the_most_assured_i_can_assure_you_in_internet/ https://old.reddit.com/r/SpaceXMasterrace/comments/15am9pl/t...
      - sealeck 2y ago
        > Same goes with Tesla. Isn't BYD a success?
        kortilla 2y ago
        Yes, 15 years later
        sealeck 2y ago
        BYD was founded in 1995 and BYD Auto was founded in January 2003 (Tesla in July 2023).
        kortilla 2y ago
        It was not a success until long after Tesla. Was not talking about founding dates
- MaxHoppersGhost 2y ago
  So you think Tesla, PayPal, SpaceX and whatever else succeeded in spite of Elon?
  - blonder 2y ago
    Tesla in 2024 is certainly succeeding in spite of Elon. From firing the supercharging team because he had some kind of mental break to the tens of millions of dollars and engineering hours wasted on the cybertruck instead of another practical vehicle he clearly isn't contributing much to what is at this point a matured company that doesn't need a maniac (for better or worse) at the helm.
    - skellington 2y ago
      Watching stupid people criticize brilliant people is pure popcorn fun! You have no idea what the future of Tesla is and it isn't cars....
    - averageRoyalty 2y ago
      What you say makes sense, but this isn't the first time he's acted this way at any of his companies and they're all still going well. At some point you have to admit either his methods work or there's more to him than what you the general public see.
    - DennisP 2y ago
      Electric pickup trucks aren't all that popular yet, but the cybertruck is selling better than any of the others. https://qz.com/tesla-cybertruck-ford-f150-lightning-electric-trucks-1851596485 https://qz.com/tesla-cybertruck-ford-f150-lightning-electric...
  - aweiland 2y ago
    Elon was fired from Paypal. He didn't know the platform, didn't really bring much to the table, and just pissed off the board. He got rich because he got to keep his stock. So I'd say yes, Paypal succeeded in spite of him. SpaceX is doing well because of Gwynne Shotwell the COO. She's been able to keep Elon out of the weeds and basically at arms length. Let's not forget Tom Mueller who basically created the entire propulsion platform. When Elon gets involved he makes silly things like the Cybertruck. Completely useless, poorly engineered, and overpriced garbage.
TrapLord_Rhodo 2y ago
> I strongly believe we should be taxing the absolute shit out of people and working hard to flatten society. I'm very curious about this mentality.. Do you beleive that meritocracy leads to better outcomes? Why do you think that the government is better positioned to allocate resources than the people who made the money? If Elon would have been "Taxed the absolute shit out of" after his sell of Zip 2, he wouldn't have founded paypal. too much tax on the paypal sell, he couldn't invest in Tesla or start SpaceX.
- everforward 2y ago
  > Do you beleive that meritocracy leads to better outcomes? Do you believe that being rich implies merit? I would argue most exceptionally wealthy people are likely to be at or above average intelligence, but the unifying element is luck. Being in the right place at the right time with the right amount of money, and knowing the right people to bring it together. Very few people have the means to even try to build SpaceX, so it’s hard to say how the average person measures up. > Why do you think that the government is better positioned to allocate resources than the people who made the money? I don’t, but I do think letting private citizens fling around “space program” quantities of money is going to end poorly. The state depends on the monopoly on violence to function, and every day we move closer to that monopoly only existing because rich private citizens choose to allow it. Building a Rods From God platform is not out of Elons reach. I don’t think he would do it, but the potential is concerning to say the least. It would be better to reign that in before it becomes a problem than to wait until it is a problem.
  - EnigmaFlare 2y ago
    He can't build Rods From God for his personal use because the government won't allow it. Or are you suggesting he builds it then uses it to perform a one-man military coup on the US and disables all their defenses? That's complete nonsense.
    - TrapLord_Rhodo 2y ago
      Give it some time, not only will the government allow it, they will pay for it.
WalterBright 2y ago
> I strongly believe we should be taxing the absolute shit out of people and working hard to flatten society We wouldn't have SpaceX or Tesla with that policy. > I genuinely believe SpaceX wouldn't be achieving nearly what it is without him It simply wouldn't have existed without him and the conventional wisdom would instead be that what he's accomplished is impossible. > insane people Musk is the sane one. It's the rest of us that are insane.
- skellington 2y ago
  there is that very famous quote: "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man," by George Bernard Shaw.
- stouset 2y ago
  > We wouldn't have SpaceX or Tesla with that policy. Neither you nor I have no idea what we’d have or wouldn’t have under a completely different set of policies.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Yeah, we do, because we've seen flattened societies and the results.
    - stouset 2y ago
      We’ve also seen the results of societies with extreme economic disparity. Neither seem to work out great.
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        In the US, we've seen enormous prosperity as a result.
        stouset 2y ago
ljsprague 2y ago
What makes you think he's unhinged? His odd tweets?
troyvit 2y ago
I don't know if this helps, but Gwynne Shotwell is the President and COO of SpaceX. She's overseen some of their biggest achievements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwynne_Shotwell#SpaceX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwynne_Shotwell#SpaceX

Mistletoe 2y ago

https://www.reuters.com/technology/spacex-employees-denounce-ceo-musk-distraction-letter-2022-06-16/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/spacex-employees-denounce... https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-employees-elon-musk-focus-twitter-ceo-2023-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-employees-elon-musk-f... >SpaceX employees say they are relieved Elon Musk is focused on Twitter because there is a calmer work environment at the rocket company He sounds like that kind of boss we have all had where you actively avoid interacting with him because his ideas will be stupid and get your project off track. I think SpaceX succeeds despite having to deal with current Elon.

seizethecheese 2y ago
Having read the Isaacson biography, Elon’s management style is essentially to be hands off then show up in “surges” of extreme work. It makes sense that most people would be happy when surges end. There’s also essentially zero chance his organizations succeed in spite of him. This is just wishful ignorance.
- larkost 2y ago
  What evidence do you offer that there is no chance of SpaceX succeeding in spite of Elon Musk? I really don't have enough detailed knowledge about his actual contributions to the various companies he runs. But given the sheer number of projects at the companies he runs I don't find it hard to believe that he is largely not responsible for the technical successes. Again, I have no evidence for it, but it would not be hard to believe. Do you have anything other than faith for that statement?
  - throw4950sh06 2y ago
    There are plenty of very respected people confirming that Elon is extremely hands on and key to Starship development. Also SpaceX engineers who worked directly with him on Reddit - take a look, it's interesting to read.
  - dotnet00 2y ago
    The fact that none of the other space startups prior to SpaceX, which had access to more resources, succeeded? Same goes with Tesla. You have to really stretch believability to argue that the one factor in common between two companies which broke into extremely hard to break into industries and ushered in paradigm shifts, happened to do so for no reason related to that common factor, let alone arguing that they did so in-spite of that common factor. We also have pretty detailed books on the history of SpaceX, written from employee interviews, which also indicate that Musk is fairly hands on. There's also this tweet from the designer of the Merlin rocket engine that is usually thrown around when these kinds of claims are made: https://old.reddit.com/r/SpaceXMasterrace/comments/15am9pl/the_most_assured_i_can_assure_you_in_internet/ https://old.reddit.com/r/SpaceXMasterrace/comments/15am9pl/t...
    - sealeck 2y ago
      > Same goes with Tesla. Isn't BYD a success?
      - kortilla 2y ago
        Yes, 15 years later
        sealeck 2y ago
        BYD was founded in 1995 and BYD Auto was founded in January 2003 (Tesla in July 2023).
        kortilla 2y ago
        It was not a success until long after Tesla. Was not talking about founding dates
MaxHoppersGhost 2y ago
So you think Tesla, PayPal, SpaceX and whatever else succeeded in spite of Elon?
- blonder 2y ago
  Tesla in 2024 is certainly succeeding in spite of Elon. From firing the supercharging team because he had some kind of mental break to the tens of millions of dollars and engineering hours wasted on the cybertruck instead of another practical vehicle he clearly isn't contributing much to what is at this point a matured company that doesn't need a maniac (for better or worse) at the helm.
  - skellington 2y ago
    Watching stupid people criticize brilliant people is pure popcorn fun! You have no idea what the future of Tesla is and it isn't cars....
  - averageRoyalty 2y ago
    What you say makes sense, but this isn't the first time he's acted this way at any of his companies and they're all still going well. At some point you have to admit either his methods work or there's more to him than what you the general public see.
  - DennisP 2y ago
    Electric pickup trucks aren't all that popular yet, but the cybertruck is selling better than any of the others. https://qz.com/tesla-cybertruck-ford-f150-lightning-electric-trucks-1851596485 https://qz.com/tesla-cybertruck-ford-f150-lightning-electric...
- aweiland 2y ago
  Elon was fired from Paypal. He didn't know the platform, didn't really bring much to the table, and just pissed off the board. He got rich because he got to keep his stock. So I'd say yes, Paypal succeeded in spite of him. SpaceX is doing well because of Gwynne Shotwell the COO. She's been able to keep Elon out of the weeds and basically at arms length. Let's not forget Tom Mueller who basically created the entire propulsion platform. When Elon gets involved he makes silly things like the Cybertruck. Completely useless, poorly engineered, and overpriced garbage.

TrapLord_Rhodo 2y ago

> I strongly believe we should be taxing the absolute shit out of people and working hard to flatten society. I'm very curious about this mentality.. Do you beleive that meritocracy leads to better outcomes? Why do you think that the government is better positioned to allocate resources than the people who made the money? If Elon would have been "Taxed the absolute shit out of" after his sell of Zip 2, he wouldn't have founded paypal. too much tax on the paypal sell, he couldn't invest in Tesla or start SpaceX.

everforward 2y ago
> Do you beleive that meritocracy leads to better outcomes? Do you believe that being rich implies merit? I would argue most exceptionally wealthy people are likely to be at or above average intelligence, but the unifying element is luck. Being in the right place at the right time with the right amount of money, and knowing the right people to bring it together. Very few people have the means to even try to build SpaceX, so it’s hard to say how the average person measures up. > Why do you think that the government is better positioned to allocate resources than the people who made the money? I don’t, but I do think letting private citizens fling around “space program” quantities of money is going to end poorly. The state depends on the monopoly on violence to function, and every day we move closer to that monopoly only existing because rich private citizens choose to allow it. Building a Rods From God platform is not out of Elons reach. I don’t think he would do it, but the potential is concerning to say the least. It would be better to reign that in before it becomes a problem than to wait until it is a problem.
- EnigmaFlare 2y ago
  He can't build Rods From God for his personal use because the government won't allow it. Or are you suggesting he builds it then uses it to perform a one-man military coup on the US and disables all their defenses? That's complete nonsense.
  - TrapLord_Rhodo 2y ago
    Give it some time, not only will the government allow it, they will pay for it.

WalterBright 2y ago

> I strongly believe we should be taxing the absolute shit out of people and working hard to flatten society We wouldn't have SpaceX or Tesla with that policy. > I genuinely believe SpaceX wouldn't be achieving nearly what it is without him It simply wouldn't have existed without him and the conventional wisdom would instead be that what he's accomplished is impossible. > insane people Musk is the sane one. It's the rest of us that are insane.

skellington 2y ago
there is that very famous quote: "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man," by George Bernard Shaw.
stouset 2y ago
> We wouldn't have SpaceX or Tesla with that policy. Neither you nor I have no idea what we’d have or wouldn’t have under a completely different set of policies.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  Yeah, we do, because we've seen flattened societies and the results.
  - stouset 2y ago
    We’ve also seen the results of societies with extreme economic disparity. Neither seem to work out great.
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      In the US, we've seen enormous prosperity as a result.
      - stouset 2y ago

ljsprague 2y ago

What makes you think he's unhinged? His odd tweets?

troyvit 2y ago

I don't know if this helps, but Gwynne Shotwell is the President and COO of SpaceX. She's overseen some of their biggest achievements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwynne_Shotwell#SpaceX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwynne_Shotwell#SpaceX