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> It really feels like early 1990s vintage Unix software. It's clunky and arcane and it's hard to feel confident doing anything complex with it. How software "

> It really feels like early 1990s vintage Unix software. It's clunky and arcane and it's hard to feel confident doing anything complex with it. How software "feels" is subjective. Can you be more specific?

threeseed 2y ago
The command line experience is old school style i.e. to show tables. \c database \dt Versus: use database show tables
- dventimi 2y ago
  That's psql.
- fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago
  It’s also faster to type.
  - eYrKEC2 2y ago
    Not after you have to google, "What's the equivalent of `show tables` in postgres?", because the psql command names are completely arbitrary.
    - fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago
      Which you need to do exactly once.
      - kalleboo 2y ago
        I need to manually admin my database server maybe once every 2 years or so. Definitely not remembering them 2 years later.
        dventimi 2y ago
        Sounds like a YP
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      They are clearly abbreviations. \c is for connect. \dt is for describe tables.
    - mxey 2y ago
      \? shows the help
    - ahoka 2y ago
      They kinda make sense if you consider that Postgres was not an SQL database in the beginning. Quirky though.
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  I assume this is really what it comes down to. If psql added those verbose-but-descriptive commands a whole bunch of people comfortable with mysql would be a lot happier using postgres.
- georgyo 2y ago
  I started with MySQL in 2006 for my personal projects, but what first won me over to psql was those commands. Today I use CLIs like usql to interact with MySQL and SQLite so I can continue to use those commands. At first glance they may be less obvious, but they are significantly more discoverable. \? Just shows you all of them. In MySQL it always feels like I need to Google it.
  - stephenr 2y ago
    > At first glance they may be less obvious, but they are significantly more discoverable. \? Just shows you all of them. In MySQL it always feels like I need to Google it. In MySQL either `?` or `help` or `\?` will show you the help...
dalyons 2y ago
It requires a ton of somewhat arcane maintenance at scale. Vacuum shenanigans, Index fragmentation requiring manual reindexing, Txid wraparounds. I like Postgres but it’s definitely way more work to maintain a large instance than mysql. MySQL just kinda works
arkh 2y ago
Having to tinker with pg_hba.conf files on the server so manage how users can connect.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  I'd agree that is annoying yet usually just a one off task, unless you really want different IP allowlists per user.
  - Tostino 2y ago
    In complex environments it is not just a one off task. I dealt with it by automating my infrastructure with ansible, but without some tooling it sucks.

threeseed 2y ago

The command line experience is old school style i.e. to show tables. \c database \dt Versus: use database show tables

dventimi 2y ago
That's psql.
fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago
It’s also faster to type.
- eYrKEC2 2y ago
  Not after you have to google, "What's the equivalent of `show tables` in postgres?", because the psql command names are completely arbitrary.
  - fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago
    Which you need to do exactly once.
    - kalleboo 2y ago
      I need to manually admin my database server maybe once every 2 years or so. Definitely not remembering them 2 years later.
      - dventimi 2y ago
        Sounds like a YP
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    They are clearly abbreviations. \c is for connect. \dt is for describe tables.
  - mxey 2y ago
    \? shows the help
  - ahoka 2y ago
    They kinda make sense if you consider that Postgres was not an SQL database in the beginning. Quirky though.
rootusrootus 2y ago
I assume this is really what it comes down to. If psql added those verbose-but-descriptive commands a whole bunch of people comfortable with mysql would be a lot happier using postgres.
georgyo 2y ago
I started with MySQL in 2006 for my personal projects, but what first won me over to psql was those commands. Today I use CLIs like usql to interact with MySQL and SQLite so I can continue to use those commands. At first glance they may be less obvious, but they are significantly more discoverable. \? Just shows you all of them. In MySQL it always feels like I need to Google it.
- stephenr 2y ago
  > At first glance they may be less obvious, but they are significantly more discoverable. \? Just shows you all of them. In MySQL it always feels like I need to Google it. In MySQL either `?` or `help` or `\?` will show you the help...

dalyons 2y ago

It requires a ton of somewhat arcane maintenance at scale. Vacuum shenanigans, Index fragmentation requiring manual reindexing, Txid wraparounds. I like Postgres but it’s definitely way more work to maintain a large instance than mysql. MySQL just kinda works

arkh 2y ago

Having to tinker with pg_hba.conf files on the server so manage how users can connect.

paulryanrogers 2y ago
I'd agree that is annoying yet usually just a one off task, unless you really want different IP allowlists per user.
- Tostino 2y ago
  In complex environments it is not just a one off task. I dealt with it by automating my infrastructure with ansible, but without some tooling it sucks.