4 ms·

You are right, it's the terrible docker experience that really seals the deal. Or the fact that to run Linux you have to rely on a small group that is trying to

You are right, it's the terrible docker experience that really seals the deal. Or the fact that to run Linux you have to rely on a small group that is trying to will it into existence without any support from Apple.

entropicdrifter 2y ago
And next to no support from upstream kernel devs
Topfi 2y ago
What exactly is MSFT doing for Linux support on Snapdragon Elite X machines?
- entropicdrifter 2y ago
  Qualcomm is merging patches into the upstream kernel directly
  - Topfi 2y ago
    To quote OP: > I wonder if anyone at Microsoft [...] Qualcomms, as far as I can tell, imperfect [0] efforts are independent of this discussion. [0] https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Disabling-X-Elite-GPU https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Disabling-X-Elite-GPU
    - entropicdrifter 2y ago
      Right, I know, I guess my point was that MS doesn't need to do anything directly since Qualcomm and the various device manufacturers are contributing instead. They were asking what MSFT was doing in response to the previous commenter talking about how Apple is doing nothing to help with Linux support. Apple is both the OS maker and the device manufacturer in that case. In the case of the Snapdragon chips, the manufacturers are upstreaming support into the mainline kernel.
Wytwwww 2y ago
> Or the fact that to run Linux Most people don't care about that (if you look at it the other way around running macOS on PCs these days isn't that easy either and it will only get worse). Just don't get a Mac if you want to use Linux? Docker is pretty painful certainly, though. Windows seem like a much better option if need to develop for Linux.
- adastra22 2y ago
  Asahi Linux is pretty nice though.
achierius 2y ago
Isn't the fact that people use mac despite all that testament to the fact that there's a good reason they're doing so? Like it or not, Apple hardware is top-notch, it integrates well with the software, and it's hard to get both anywhere else.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  As always, it's a testament to the power of Apple marketing rather than the product itself. Apple has never been anything special compared to its competitors.
  - spiderice 2y ago
    Comments like this are a way to instantly kill your credibility. Let's go back to 2012 and compare laptop trackpads and then see if we can pretend that your comment isn't hyperbole.
    - bitsandboots 2y ago
      Not that I agree with them, but you gave a really bad example. Typing this from an M1 MBP and I would take any laptop trackpad I've ever had over it, even pre 2012. Because this thing is inferior at basic tasks like dragging or shifting from right to left click. Partially because it lacks no physical mouse buttons, and partially because it's implementation of such a scheme is just worse than every other laptop I've had. The laptop begs for a standalone mouse, but Apple in its infinite practically did not include a USB A port for the purpose, further complicating life.
    - seba_dos1 2y ago
      As someone who really cares about a good trackpad and owns a Magic Trackpad 2, I never understood people who put Apple ones on pedestal. It's macOS that had good trackpad handling sooner than other OSes/DEs; their hardware was always comparable to other laptops from the same class. The only thing they actually differentiated in was haptic feedback, and it's mostly just a gimmick unless you happen to care about making tactile clicks as quiet as possible. Sure, if you bought some shitty cheap laptop you got a shitty cheap trackpad on it, but that's hardly surprising.
andrewaylett 2y ago
They have much more support than that. Apple may not be willing to provide direct assistance (and I wish they would) but they have designed the system such that it's not locked down nearly as much as an iOS device. To the point that on ARM64, one may add a second OS without losing system integrity on one's primary OS.
alibert 2y ago
Docker on macOS doesn't have the same underlying system support as on Linux, which is where Docker originated. The Docker experience on macOS is also marred by the fact that Docker Inc. appears to have limited interest in their Docker Desktop offering, whereas a third-party alternative like Orbstack provides a much better experience.

entropicdrifter 2y ago

And next to no support from upstream kernel devs

Topfi 2y ago

What exactly is MSFT doing for Linux support on Snapdragon Elite X machines?

entropicdrifter 2y ago
Qualcomm is merging patches into the upstream kernel directly
- Topfi 2y ago
  To quote OP: > I wonder if anyone at Microsoft [...] Qualcomms, as far as I can tell, imperfect [0] efforts are independent of this discussion. [0] https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Disabling-X-Elite-GPU https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Disabling-X-Elite-GPU
  - entropicdrifter 2y ago
    Right, I know, I guess my point was that MS doesn't need to do anything directly since Qualcomm and the various device manufacturers are contributing instead. They were asking what MSFT was doing in response to the previous commenter talking about how Apple is doing nothing to help with Linux support. Apple is both the OS maker and the device manufacturer in that case. In the case of the Snapdragon chips, the manufacturers are upstreaming support into the mainline kernel.

Wytwwww 2y ago

> Or the fact that to run Linux Most people don't care about that (if you look at it the other way around running macOS on PCs these days isn't that easy either and it will only get worse). Just don't get a Mac if you want to use Linux? Docker is pretty painful certainly, though. Windows seem like a much better option if need to develop for Linux.

adastra22 2y ago
Asahi Linux is pretty nice though.

achierius 2y ago

Isn't the fact that people use mac despite all that testament to the fact that there's a good reason they're doing so? Like it or not, Apple hardware is top-notch, it integrates well with the software, and it's hard to get both anywhere else.

bigstrat2003 2y ago
As always, it's a testament to the power of Apple marketing rather than the product itself. Apple has never been anything special compared to its competitors.
- spiderice 2y ago
  Comments like this are a way to instantly kill your credibility. Let's go back to 2012 and compare laptop trackpads and then see if we can pretend that your comment isn't hyperbole.
  - bitsandboots 2y ago
    Not that I agree with them, but you gave a really bad example. Typing this from an M1 MBP and I would take any laptop trackpad I've ever had over it, even pre 2012. Because this thing is inferior at basic tasks like dragging or shifting from right to left click. Partially because it lacks no physical mouse buttons, and partially because it's implementation of such a scheme is just worse than every other laptop I've had. The laptop begs for a standalone mouse, but Apple in its infinite practically did not include a USB A port for the purpose, further complicating life.
  - seba_dos1 2y ago
    As someone who really cares about a good trackpad and owns a Magic Trackpad 2, I never understood people who put Apple ones on pedestal. It's macOS that had good trackpad handling sooner than other OSes/DEs; their hardware was always comparable to other laptops from the same class. The only thing they actually differentiated in was haptic feedback, and it's mostly just a gimmick unless you happen to care about making tactile clicks as quiet as possible. Sure, if you bought some shitty cheap laptop you got a shitty cheap trackpad on it, but that's hardly surprising.

andrewaylett 2y ago

They have much more support than that. Apple may not be willing to provide direct assistance (and I wish they would) but they have designed the system such that it's not locked down nearly as much as an iOS device. To the point that on ARM64, one may add a second OS without losing system integrity on one's primary OS.

alibert 2y ago

Docker on macOS doesn't have the same underlying system support as on Linux, which is where Docker originated. The Docker experience on macOS is also marred by the fact that Docker Inc. appears to have limited interest in their Docker Desktop offering, whereas a third-party alternative like Orbstack provides a much better experience.