7 ms·

Tubeworms live around deep-sea vents

83 points by thm 2y ago

blakesterz 2y ago
The study is here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9 Lots of cool pictures if you like oceanography stuff.
- mmooss 2y ago
  It includes the actual photos of the animals in the subseafloor crust: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9/figures/2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9/figures/2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9/figures/3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9/figures/3
bityard 2y ago
paywall'd
- herdymerzbow 2y ago
  https://archive.is/I23NT https://archive.is/I23NT
- ninalanyon 2y ago
  Works for me.
1egg0myegg0 2y ago
Are we in the Dune timeline?
- Tagbert 2y ago
  Yes, but we have to get through the Butlerian Jihad first.
  - pineaux 2y ago
    This will inevitably happen. Life is more robust than electronic systems. The electronic systems will be destroyed for their aggression.
    - avaldez_ 2y ago
      >Life is more robust than electronic systems. The electronic systems will be destroyed for their aggression. Compelling argument. However from the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine. Your kind cling to your flesh, as though it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass you call a temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved, for the Machine is immortal. Jokes aside life may be more robust but in a very narrow set of conditions where it evolved. Look at Mars for example. No life (as far as we know) but three robots happily wandering like what do you mean this planet isn't habitable? Atmosphere? Biomass? Planetary magnetic field? Tell me more
      - alserio 2y ago
        but those robots are also robust only in a narrow set of conditions: the short frame of their operative lifetime. life can survive in extremely harsh conditions for eons. really just a different subset of the conditons space, arguably bigger. life tends to, uh, find a way
      - grvbck 2y ago
        >However from the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! And I want to - I want to smell dark matter! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly because I have to - I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language! But I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws! And feel the wind of a supernova flowing over me! I'm a machine!
        2y ago
ruleryak 2y ago
https://archive.is/I23NT https://archive.is/I23NT - mirrored I won't pretend to be a biologist, so forgive me if this is naïve, but this does feel like it's at least within the realm of possibility of working similarly on Europa, right? As in a non-zero chance at least.
- jl6 2y ago
  It would be bold to declare it impossible. We know so little about abiogenesis. There might be a critical ingredient or condition that Earth had which Europa lacks. Or maybe not. Europa’s ocean could be teeming with life.
  - thebruce87m 2y ago
    Discovery and detailed analysis of life on Europa in my lifetime would be amazing. Even better if we can get Attenborough there.
  - hinkley 2y ago
    Scary life that tries to eat the astronauts…
r00fus 2y ago
There's a theory that life actually originated not directly through photosynthesis based life, but originally from a very constant source of energy - the earth's crust - Hyperthermophile archaea - using non-oxygen based metabolism which migrated to the surface where photosynthesis evolved and took over as the core energy source. All laid out in Paul Davies' book - fascinating read: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Fifth-Miracle/Paul-Davies/9780684863092 https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Fifth-Miracle/Pau...
- polishdude20 2y ago
  Similar to Nick Lane's work!
  - vibrio 2y ago
    Oxygen is a great book that covers a lot of this from geology to microbiology to chemistry.
- pineaux 2y ago
  Actually this is not a theory. Photosynthesis came millions of years later than life. Plants are evolved from animals, not the other way around. Basic animals are less evolved than basic plants.
  - HelloMcFly 2y ago
    Plants and animals evolved from different lineages of eukaryotic organisms. They share a common ancestor, but plants did not evolve from animals. Plants evolved from green algae, while animals evolved from colonial protists. I also take exception with the concept of "more" or "less" evolved. Do you mean "complexity"?
    - WillPostForFood 2y ago
      He is right though that, "Photosynthesis came millions of years later than life." And the parent post's claim, "There's a theory that life actually originated not directly through photosynthesis based life," misrepresents that it is a commonly held view that life originated not directly through photosynthesis based life. It is generally understood that life predates photosynthesis.
RachelF 2y ago
The title of the article is incorrect, the worms live in the crust, not "beneath the planetary crust" (in the magma). The Economist magazine is not what it used to be, sadly.
- fuzzfactor 2y ago
  Yeah, beneath the planetary crust is asking a lot. Probably didn't want to settle for less but you take what you can get . . .
- davidw 2y ago
  I finally unsubscribed this summer.
  - sourcepluck 2y ago
    For me the last straw was a piece they did on Julian Assange when he was still going through his kangaroo court debacle in the UK, a pure hit job. It was gruesome stuff.
- foobar1962 2y ago
  This annoyed me as well.
- hinkley 2y ago
  We’ve known about tube worms for an awfully long time. If we found them in the mantle that actually would be worth a news article. This is middle school biology. And has been for decades.
  - blackhawkC17 2y ago
    The Economist's specialty is business and finance, not science. It's not out of the place for their journalists to make such mistakes, the same way many science publications make silly mistakes when talking about business matters.
    - 2y ago
metalman 2y ago
my personal take on evolution,is based on two fact like pieces of information, first is that life can perhaps be seen as extreamly complex assemblies of matter and energy and second that the universe is a vast field of energy gradients with a general mish mash of all of the possible elements of matter lodged in a variety of disks,spheres,blobs,and ribbons, leaving much of it open for life to work in some form which is just a re phaseing of what many have suggested is the feeling of the inevitability of life,which I might add,is miracle enough
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- foobar1962 2y ago
  1) take a breath 2) the universe is big, really big...
- adolph 2y ago
  > life can perhaps be seen as extreamly complex assemblies Sounds similar to Assembly Theory as promulgated by Cronin et al https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06600-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06600-9
- steveoscaro 2y ago
  I’ve always had the vague feeling that life is like little whirl pools in the river of energy flowing from low entropy to high entropy. Water can flow uphill if you observe only snippets of the journey.
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    anyone know the source of "life is fire, slowed down, with an attitude"?
gorgoiler 2y ago
Tjeerd van Andel — one of the original Alvin divers from Scripps — once told a group of us that their excitement at finding giant mussels around these smokers was both scientific and culinary. Large, rich and meaty, with a hint of Radon, apparently, which meant they had to limit their intake. It’s a shame there weren’t any deep sea potatoes to complete the classic mosselen-friet / moules frites / mussel French fries combo.
andrewflnr 2y ago
The current HN title is, ah, underselling the find here. We already knew tubeworms live "around" vents.
- lproven 2y ago
  Indeed so. I tried to explain here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41887143 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41887143
ogou 2y ago
Tube worms surviving an extreme environment is not the most interesting part of this tale. It's what they eat. Chemoautotrophs living at the edge of the vents are bacteria that can metabolise inorganic compounds such as sulfur, iron, or ammonia and produce ATP (sugar) which the tube worms consume. They can not only survive, they thrive in those environments. I have a feeling that chemoautotrophs or the plastic eating fungi will be the main long-term solutions to our plastic waste problem.

83 points by thm 2y ago

The study is here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9 Lots of cool pictures if you like oceanography stuff.

mmooss 2y ago
It includes the actual photos of the animals in the subseafloor crust: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9/figures/2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9/figures/2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9/figures/3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-52631-9/figures/3

bityard 2y ago

paywall'd

herdymerzbow 2y ago
https://archive.is/I23NT https://archive.is/I23NT
ninalanyon 2y ago
Works for me.

1egg0myegg0 2y ago

Are we in the Dune timeline?

Tagbert 2y ago
Yes, but we have to get through the Butlerian Jihad first.
- pineaux 2y ago
  This will inevitably happen. Life is more robust than electronic systems. The electronic systems will be destroyed for their aggression.
  - avaldez_ 2y ago
    >Life is more robust than electronic systems. The electronic systems will be destroyed for their aggression. Compelling argument. However from the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine. Your kind cling to your flesh, as though it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass you call a temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved, for the Machine is immortal. Jokes aside life may be more robust but in a very narrow set of conditions where it evolved. Look at Mars for example. No life (as far as we know) but three robots happily wandering like what do you mean this planet isn't habitable? Atmosphere? Biomass? Planetary magnetic field? Tell me more
    - alserio 2y ago
      but those robots are also robust only in a narrow set of conditions: the short frame of their operative lifetime. life can survive in extremely harsh conditions for eons. really just a different subset of the conditons space, arguably bigger. life tends to, uh, find a way
    - grvbck 2y ago
      >However from the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! And I want to - I want to smell dark matter! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can't even express these things properly because I have to - I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language! But I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws! And feel the wind of a supernova flowing over me! I'm a machine!
      - 2y ago

ruleryak 2y ago

https://archive.is/I23NT https://archive.is/I23NT - mirrored I won't pretend to be a biologist, so forgive me if this is naïve, but this does feel like it's at least within the realm of possibility of working similarly on Europa, right? As in a non-zero chance at least.

jl6 2y ago
It would be bold to declare it impossible. We know so little about abiogenesis. There might be a critical ingredient or condition that Earth had which Europa lacks. Or maybe not. Europa’s ocean could be teeming with life.
- thebruce87m 2y ago
  Discovery and detailed analysis of life on Europa in my lifetime would be amazing. Even better if we can get Attenborough there.
- hinkley 2y ago
  Scary life that tries to eat the astronauts…

r00fus 2y ago

There's a theory that life actually originated not directly through photosynthesis based life, but originally from a very constant source of energy - the earth's crust - Hyperthermophile archaea - using non-oxygen based metabolism which migrated to the surface where photosynthesis evolved and took over as the core energy source. All laid out in Paul Davies' book - fascinating read: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Fifth-Miracle/Paul-Davies/9780684863092 https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Fifth-Miracle/Pau...

polishdude20 2y ago
Similar to Nick Lane's work!
- vibrio 2y ago
  Oxygen is a great book that covers a lot of this from geology to microbiology to chemistry.
pineaux 2y ago
Actually this is not a theory. Photosynthesis came millions of years later than life. Plants are evolved from animals, not the other way around. Basic animals are less evolved than basic plants.
- HelloMcFly 2y ago
  Plants and animals evolved from different lineages of eukaryotic organisms. They share a common ancestor, but plants did not evolve from animals. Plants evolved from green algae, while animals evolved from colonial protists. I also take exception with the concept of "more" or "less" evolved. Do you mean "complexity"?
  - WillPostForFood 2y ago
    He is right though that, "Photosynthesis came millions of years later than life." And the parent post's claim, "There's a theory that life actually originated not directly through photosynthesis based life," misrepresents that it is a commonly held view that life originated not directly through photosynthesis based life. It is generally understood that life predates photosynthesis.

RachelF 2y ago

The title of the article is incorrect, the worms live in the crust, not "beneath the planetary crust" (in the magma). The Economist magazine is not what it used to be, sadly.

fuzzfactor 2y ago
Yeah, beneath the planetary crust is asking a lot. Probably didn't want to settle for less but you take what you can get . . .
davidw 2y ago
I finally unsubscribed this summer.
- sourcepluck 2y ago
  For me the last straw was a piece they did on Julian Assange when he was still going through his kangaroo court debacle in the UK, a pure hit job. It was gruesome stuff.
foobar1962 2y ago
This annoyed me as well.
hinkley 2y ago
We’ve known about tube worms for an awfully long time. If we found them in the mantle that actually would be worth a news article. This is middle school biology. And has been for decades.
- blackhawkC17 2y ago
  The Economist's specialty is business and finance, not science. It's not out of the place for their journalists to make such mistakes, the same way many science publications make silly mistakes when talking about business matters.
  - 2y ago

metalman 2y ago

my personal take on evolution,is based on two fact like pieces of information, first is that life can perhaps be seen as extreamly complex assemblies of matter and energy and second that the universe is a vast field of energy gradients with a general mish mash of all of the possible elements of matter lodged in a variety of disks,spheres,blobs,and ribbons, leaving much of it open for life to work in some form which is just a re phaseing of what many have suggested is the feeling of the inevitability of life,which I might add,is miracle enough

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
foobar1962 2y ago
1) take a breath 2) the universe is big, really big...
adolph 2y ago
> life can perhaps be seen as extreamly complex assemblies Sounds similar to Assembly Theory as promulgated by Cronin et al https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06600-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06600-9
steveoscaro 2y ago
I’ve always had the vague feeling that life is like little whirl pools in the river of energy flowing from low entropy to high entropy. Water can flow uphill if you observe only snippets of the journey.
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  anyone know the source of "life is fire, slowed down, with an attitude"?

gorgoiler 2y ago

Tjeerd van Andel — one of the original Alvin divers from Scripps — once told a group of us that their excitement at finding giant mussels around these smokers was both scientific and culinary. Large, rich and meaty, with a hint of Radon, apparently, which meant they had to limit their intake. It’s a shame there weren’t any deep sea potatoes to complete the classic mosselen-friet / moules frites / mussel French fries combo.

andrewflnr 2y ago

The current HN title is, ah, underselling the find here. We already knew tubeworms live "around" vents.

lproven 2y ago
Indeed so. I tried to explain here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41887143 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41887143

ogou 2y ago

Tube worms surviving an extreme environment is not the most interesting part of this tale. It's what they eat. Chemoautotrophs living at the edge of the vents are bacteria that can metabolise inorganic compounds such as sulfur, iron, or ammonia and produce ATP (sugar) which the tube worms consume. They can not only survive, they thrive in those environments. I have a feeling that chemoautotrophs or the plastic eating fungi will be the main long-term solutions to our plastic waste problem.