4 ms·

Thank God this VMM is written in Rust, otherwise I would be very skeptical. I don't care about features or purpose or technical advantages, give me Rust or give

by ericyd 2y ago

Thank God this VMM is written in Rust, otherwise I would be very skeptical. I don't care about features or purpose or technical advantages, give me Rust or give me death.

jeroenhd 2y ago
When it comes to low-level, security sensitive software like this, I actually do value the software being written in a relatively safe language. Could Rust, could be C# for all I care.
- sitkack 2y ago
  Rust's safety properties are vastly better than C#, memory safety is the barrier to entry.
  - hulitu 2y ago
    (i've heard) unless you use unsafe. /s
- hulitu 2y ago
  > When it comes to low-level, security sensitive software like this, I actually do value the software being written in a relatively safe language. When it comes to low-level, security sensitive software like this, I actually do value the software being tested extensively. Bugs are bugs even if they are written in C, Rust, Ada, Elixir, Lisp or whatever language you like.
  - touisteur 2y ago
    Next level of this thread is with formal proof (e.g. SPARK). Left to the reader to complete the paragraph.
mcflubbins 2y ago
For real, I find it so odd to tack on "written in Rust" to every new project that's announced that uses Rust. (As someone who uses Rust in their day job)
- RamRodification 2y ago
  As someone who does no programming at all, I can say that it kinda works. It makes me think "Ok they have made a VMM again, but this time in that somehow safer programming language Rust. They probably know what they're doing so it will be just as good as the old one, only safer!". I know enough to know that this is not necessarily true, but when I see these posts I always hope that it's true (and rely on people with the proper knowledge and experience to verify if it is or isn't). Then I go to the comments and there is often a discussion about how a rewrite will probably be less secure because it will introduce new bugs. But then maybe those will be fixed and eventually it will just be a more secure version.
- poincaredisk 2y ago
  I consider a language mature, when it's developers stop feeling the need to list "written in X" in the features section of the repository/main page.
  - orangeboats 2y ago
    That'd be a poor criteria. C++ is now an immature language: Show HN: Comprehensive inter-process communication (IPC) toolkit in modern C++ (2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40028118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40028118
    - wrs 2y ago
      Considering the continual revisions in C++ of fundamental things like pointers and strings, arguably this is not incorrect…
- systems 2y ago
  because languages matter more than people like to admit yes you can write OOP in C , but please don't and you can write fp code in Java .. this one I am not so sure about, but I would say its still better to just use scala or clojure if you must JVM, and use just use ocaml and drop the no-tail-call-optimization-jvm the point is .. languages matter
Sytten 2y ago
Those comments really are getting old. Each HN post with rust in the title seem to have that snarky comment that get a bunch of upvotes. I get that some people are annoyed, but can we stay on topic. As technologist we should strive to written better software, rust is a good tool for low-level components, that's it.
- ericyd 2y ago
  My frustration comes from seeing posts with no obvious merit other than the language they are written in. If that's the most compelling feature of your software then I don't care too see it on the homepage. Writing compelling headlines is hard, but it's part of marketing. My comment could probably have been more thoughtful, but I'd like to encourage people to submit better headlines which highlight their software's differentiating features.
knowitnone 2y ago
You might not care for Rust but other people do. There is this concept called selling point where one highlight something of significance that helps one stand out from the rest. But you do you and if you find yourself running any program written in Rust, you would be a hypocrite.
- ericyd 2y ago
  I absolutely do use software written in rust and I do so because of its superior feature set or user experience. The fact that it's written in rust has so relevance to my interest in new software. If the defining feature is something that rust is known for like memory safety then say that in the headline instead.

by ericyd 2y ago

Thank God this VMM is written in Rust, otherwise I would be very skeptical. I don't care about features or purpose or technical advantages, give me Rust or give me death.

jeroenhd 2y ago

When it comes to low-level, security sensitive software like this, I actually do value the software being written in a relatively safe language. Could Rust, could be C# for all I care.

sitkack 2y ago
Rust's safety properties are vastly better than C#, memory safety is the barrier to entry.
- hulitu 2y ago
  (i've heard) unless you use unsafe. /s
hulitu 2y ago
> When it comes to low-level, security sensitive software like this, I actually do value the software being written in a relatively safe language. When it comes to low-level, security sensitive software like this, I actually do value the software being tested extensively. Bugs are bugs even if they are written in C, Rust, Ada, Elixir, Lisp or whatever language you like.
- touisteur 2y ago
  Next level of this thread is with formal proof (e.g. SPARK). Left to the reader to complete the paragraph.

mcflubbins 2y ago

For real, I find it so odd to tack on "written in Rust" to every new project that's announced that uses Rust. (As someone who uses Rust in their day job)

RamRodification 2y ago
As someone who does no programming at all, I can say that it kinda works. It makes me think "Ok they have made a VMM again, but this time in that somehow safer programming language Rust. They probably know what they're doing so it will be just as good as the old one, only safer!". I know enough to know that this is not necessarily true, but when I see these posts I always hope that it's true (and rely on people with the proper knowledge and experience to verify if it is or isn't). Then I go to the comments and there is often a discussion about how a rewrite will probably be less secure because it will introduce new bugs. But then maybe those will be fixed and eventually it will just be a more secure version.
poincaredisk 2y ago
I consider a language mature, when it's developers stop feeling the need to list "written in X" in the features section of the repository/main page.
- orangeboats 2y ago
  That'd be a poor criteria. C++ is now an immature language: Show HN: Comprehensive inter-process communication (IPC) toolkit in modern C++ (2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40028118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40028118
  - wrs 2y ago
    Considering the continual revisions in C++ of fundamental things like pointers and strings, arguably this is not incorrect…
systems 2y ago
because languages matter more than people like to admit yes you can write OOP in C , but please don't and you can write fp code in Java .. this one I am not so sure about, but I would say its still better to just use scala or clojure if you must JVM, and use just use ocaml and drop the no-tail-call-optimization-jvm the point is .. languages matter

Sytten 2y ago

Those comments really are getting old. Each HN post with rust in the title seem to have that snarky comment that get a bunch of upvotes. I get that some people are annoyed, but can we stay on topic. As technologist we should strive to written better software, rust is a good tool for low-level components, that's it.

ericyd 2y ago
My frustration comes from seeing posts with no obvious merit other than the language they are written in. If that's the most compelling feature of your software then I don't care too see it on the homepage. Writing compelling headlines is hard, but it's part of marketing. My comment could probably have been more thoughtful, but I'd like to encourage people to submit better headlines which highlight their software's differentiating features.

knowitnone 2y ago

You might not care for Rust but other people do. There is this concept called selling point where one highlight something of significance that helps one stand out from the rest. But you do you and if you find yourself running any program written in Rust, you would be a hypocrite.

ericyd 2y ago
I absolutely do use software written in rust and I do so because of its superior feature set or user experience. The fact that it's written in rust has so relevance to my interest in new software. If the defining feature is something that rust is known for like memory safety then say that in the headline instead.