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> Generally, EV have the reputation of requiring much less maintenance. I'm sure you could generate a maintenance figure for EV that was lower than ICE if you

> Generally, EV have the reputation of requiring much less maintenance. I'm sure you could generate a maintenance figure for EV that was lower than ICE if you wanted to. But I doubt that figure would be significant, maybe 10-15% if you're lucky. Why ? Well, let's face it, an EV is still a car. So you still have 99% of the same old things ... tyres, brakes, shock-absorbers, windscreen, windscreen wiper blades, washer fluid, AC gas etc. etc. etc. And then, of course, if there are problems with your EV battery, or its time for an EV battery replacement, then that 10-15% saving goes out the window. :)

chrisco255 2y ago
> an EV is still a car. So you still have the same old things ... No, an ICE has a very complex drivetrain with thousands of moving parts. Belts, transmissions, gears, fuel filter, oil seals and gaskets, batteries (ICE's need them too), spark plugs, fuel pump, fuel injector, alternator, radiator and water pump, catalytic converter, etc etc . Brakes also wear slower on EVs since regnerative braking captures some energy. Electric motors themselves are far more reliable and simpler than ICE motors.
- xxs 2y ago
  since you mention the radiator, the EV needs quite the cooling as well; although I do agree for the most part. The electric motors are a lot simpler than even a small engine lawnmower.
  - traceroute66 2y ago
    > batteries (ICE's need them too) I've replaced a few ICE batteries in my time. You can replace them at home in 5 minutes and they are a gazillion times cheaper than an EV battery. :) > ICE has a very complex drivetrain with thousands of moving parts. Belts, transmissions, gears, fuel filter, oil seals and gaskets This whole thing about ICE is FUD IMHO. Yes, complex, but on modern ICE vehicles is highly-reliable. Also I would argue with EVs you are replacing ICE "complexity" with other complexity. For example, in EVs you now have individual motors on four wheels (i.e. potentially four points of failure), you have all the software in EVs etc. etc. etc. I would also argue that the ICE "complexity" of what you speak is NOT where the bulk of ICE maintenance costs come from. Afterall, topping up the oil and replacing gaskets is kids work. The bulk of ICE maintenance will ultimately be the same as EV maintenance, i.e. all the wear-and-tear parts I listed already, such as tyres.
    - mirsadm 2y ago
      Most EVs don't have four motors on each wheel. They'll have one or two.
    - formerly_proven 2y ago
      It also depends a lot on what type of ICE we are talking about. A very high power output downsizing engine with two turbochargers, direct fuel injection, EGR, intercooler, electric oil pump(s) (for turbo cooling), variable valve timings and/or lift systems etc. -- what you'll typically find in a high trim ICE mid-class car -- has far, far more parts and experiences a lot higher stresses than e.g. the naturally aspirated port injection engine you might find in a city car.
    - xxs 2y ago
      I suppose the reply was not meant to be a direct response to my comment?
- jcgrillo 2y ago
  Those "complex parts" (engine and gearboxes) usually only require yearly oil changes and replacement of minor parts as you mentioned (spark plugs, plug wires, belts, tensioners--maybe injectors every 100kmi) for the first quarter million miles. At 10kmi/yr that's 25yr. The complexity as defined by parts count doesn't have much practical impact on TCO.
- magicalhippo 2y ago
  That said, my BEV is currently in service due to the charger shorting out for some reason. Not sure which came first, but the battery cable harness also got damaged and had to be replaced. A quick change once the parts arrived they said. The car is still under warranty so won't cost me a dime, but if the bill they presented me with is real and not some "medical bill" shenanigans, the charger alone would be 1/8th the price of the car as new, total repair cost 1/5th... So yeah, still some expensive parts that can break. Was quite happy with very little maintenance costs so far, but if that price was real and charger breaks after warranty is out, the whole value proposition is quite different.
ollybee 2y ago
It's not 99% of the same things, you have cherry picked. There's many studies comparing the cost, I've never see any that put the saving as low as 10 to 15%, 50% is a more common figure. Most manufacturers grantee their batteries , mine has a 10 year warranty.Batteries developing problems and needing to be replaces is not really a thing.
- traceroute66 2y ago
  > It's not 99% of the same things, you have cherry picked. No, I have not cherry picked. Because the remaining 1%, topping-up oil, replacing gaskets, belts etc. is simply not where the bulk of ICE maintenance costs come from. This sort of stuff can be done cheaply and easily by your local garage. The bulk of the ICE and EV maintenance costs is the same, the stuff that gets exposed to the wear-and-tear of the elements, i.e. your tyres, your windscreen, your shock-absorbers etc. etc. An EV does not make you immune to getting nails in your tyres, chips in your windscreen, cracks in your shock-absorbers etc. .... > Most manufacturers grantee their batteries , mine has a 10 year warranty As with most things of this nature, I would be interested to see the wordings of such warranties, particularly the exclusion clauses. :) > There's many studies comparing the cost... And if we exclude studies funded/conducted by the EV companies or others with vested interests ? :)
  - chii 2y ago
    > your tyres i've heard, not 100% sure if true, that EV tends to push the tyres harder, as they accelerate harder. This means tyres lasts for less for an EV.
    - traceroute66 2y ago
      > that EV tends to push the tyres harder, as they accelerate harder. I would think the regen breaking might also put wear on the tyres, especially for those people who like it set in the more aggressive modes.
    - lnsru 2y ago
      It’s the driver. BMW tires and brakes do not last long too.
lnsru 2y ago
You’re heavily oversimplifying things. If you look at some random Volkswagen or BMW service plan - it’s always about engine. Oil, belts, chains, spark plugs, air filters. Parts optimized for a profitable quick replacement at a dealership. Easily 600-900€ yearly with today’s prices. There are also gazillion things to fail and to be repaired. Sensors, hoses, cables, alternator, fuel lines, clutch, exhaust system. All these parts were replaced in family’s petrol cars during last years. I doubt, that today’s Teslas will have battery problems. They have enough knowledge for volume production. Expect 2% early battery capacity degradation though.
Majromax 2y ago
> 99% of the same old things ... tyres, brakes Aren't brakes one shared system where electric vehicles have an advantage? With the widespread use of regenerative braking, most of the energy of motion is bled off without friction on wear parts. EVs still need brake discs and calipers to maintain a full stop (particularly on an incline), for emergency braking, and as a failsafe, but the parts should experience much less routine wear. Additionally, your list omits the entire exhaust system, which is full of components that can foul up or corrode. Combustion exhaust gasses can be pretty corrosive stuff, particularly when combined with water condensation on short trips/cold days.

chrisco255 2y ago

> an EV is still a car. So you still have the same old things ... No, an ICE has a very complex drivetrain with thousands of moving parts. Belts, transmissions, gears, fuel filter, oil seals and gaskets, batteries (ICE's need them too), spark plugs, fuel pump, fuel injector, alternator, radiator and water pump, catalytic converter, etc etc . Brakes also wear slower on EVs since regnerative braking captures some energy. Electric motors themselves are far more reliable and simpler than ICE motors.

xxs 2y ago
since you mention the radiator, the EV needs quite the cooling as well; although I do agree for the most part. The electric motors are a lot simpler than even a small engine lawnmower.
- traceroute66 2y ago
  > batteries (ICE's need them too) I've replaced a few ICE batteries in my time. You can replace them at home in 5 minutes and they are a gazillion times cheaper than an EV battery. :) > ICE has a very complex drivetrain with thousands of moving parts. Belts, transmissions, gears, fuel filter, oil seals and gaskets This whole thing about ICE is FUD IMHO. Yes, complex, but on modern ICE vehicles is highly-reliable. Also I would argue with EVs you are replacing ICE "complexity" with other complexity. For example, in EVs you now have individual motors on four wheels (i.e. potentially four points of failure), you have all the software in EVs etc. etc. etc. I would also argue that the ICE "complexity" of what you speak is NOT where the bulk of ICE maintenance costs come from. Afterall, topping up the oil and replacing gaskets is kids work. The bulk of ICE maintenance will ultimately be the same as EV maintenance, i.e. all the wear-and-tear parts I listed already, such as tyres.
  - mirsadm 2y ago
    Most EVs don't have four motors on each wheel. They'll have one or two.
  - formerly_proven 2y ago
    It also depends a lot on what type of ICE we are talking about. A very high power output downsizing engine with two turbochargers, direct fuel injection, EGR, intercooler, electric oil pump(s) (for turbo cooling), variable valve timings and/or lift systems etc. -- what you'll typically find in a high trim ICE mid-class car -- has far, far more parts and experiences a lot higher stresses than e.g. the naturally aspirated port injection engine you might find in a city car.
  - xxs 2y ago
    I suppose the reply was not meant to be a direct response to my comment?
jcgrillo 2y ago
Those "complex parts" (engine and gearboxes) usually only require yearly oil changes and replacement of minor parts as you mentioned (spark plugs, plug wires, belts, tensioners--maybe injectors every 100kmi) for the first quarter million miles. At 10kmi/yr that's 25yr. The complexity as defined by parts count doesn't have much practical impact on TCO.
magicalhippo 2y ago
That said, my BEV is currently in service due to the charger shorting out for some reason. Not sure which came first, but the battery cable harness also got damaged and had to be replaced. A quick change once the parts arrived they said. The car is still under warranty so won't cost me a dime, but if the bill they presented me with is real and not some "medical bill" shenanigans, the charger alone would be 1/8th the price of the car as new, total repair cost 1/5th... So yeah, still some expensive parts that can break. Was quite happy with very little maintenance costs so far, but if that price was real and charger breaks after warranty is out, the whole value proposition is quite different.

ollybee 2y ago

It's not 99% of the same things, you have cherry picked. There's many studies comparing the cost, I've never see any that put the saving as low as 10 to 15%, 50% is a more common figure. Most manufacturers grantee their batteries , mine has a 10 year warranty.Batteries developing problems and needing to be replaces is not really a thing.

traceroute66 2y ago
> It's not 99% of the same things, you have cherry picked. No, I have not cherry picked. Because the remaining 1%, topping-up oil, replacing gaskets, belts etc. is simply not where the bulk of ICE maintenance costs come from. This sort of stuff can be done cheaply and easily by your local garage. The bulk of the ICE and EV maintenance costs is the same, the stuff that gets exposed to the wear-and-tear of the elements, i.e. your tyres, your windscreen, your shock-absorbers etc. etc. An EV does not make you immune to getting nails in your tyres, chips in your windscreen, cracks in your shock-absorbers etc. .... > Most manufacturers grantee their batteries , mine has a 10 year warranty As with most things of this nature, I would be interested to see the wordings of such warranties, particularly the exclusion clauses. :) > There's many studies comparing the cost... And if we exclude studies funded/conducted by the EV companies or others with vested interests ? :)
- chii 2y ago
  > your tyres i've heard, not 100% sure if true, that EV tends to push the tyres harder, as they accelerate harder. This means tyres lasts for less for an EV.
  - traceroute66 2y ago
    > that EV tends to push the tyres harder, as they accelerate harder. I would think the regen breaking might also put wear on the tyres, especially for those people who like it set in the more aggressive modes.
  - lnsru 2y ago
    It’s the driver. BMW tires and brakes do not last long too.

lnsru 2y ago

You’re heavily oversimplifying things. If you look at some random Volkswagen or BMW service plan - it’s always about engine. Oil, belts, chains, spark plugs, air filters. Parts optimized for a profitable quick replacement at a dealership. Easily 600-900€ yearly with today’s prices. There are also gazillion things to fail and to be repaired. Sensors, hoses, cables, alternator, fuel lines, clutch, exhaust system. All these parts were replaced in family’s petrol cars during last years. I doubt, that today’s Teslas will have battery problems. They have enough knowledge for volume production. Expect 2% early battery capacity degradation though.

Majromax 2y ago

> 99% of the same old things ... tyres, brakes Aren't brakes one shared system where electric vehicles have an advantage? With the widespread use of regenerative braking, most of the energy of motion is bled off without friction on wear parts. EVs still need brake discs and calipers to maintain a full stop (particularly on an incline), for emergency braking, and as a failsafe, but the parts should experience much less routine wear. Additionally, your list omits the entire exhaust system, which is full of components that can foul up or corrode. Combustion exhaust gasses can be pretty corrosive stuff, particularly when combined with water condensation on short trips/cold days.