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The problem, is that not paying does not get you out of the legal obligation to pay. Most companies won't follow up because the cost isn't worth it, but there a

The problem, is that not paying does not get you out of the legal obligation to pay. Most companies won't follow up because the cost isn't worth it, but there are definitely organizations that will go after you or sell your debts to collection agencies... The marginal cost to a gym/ISP of the remaining duration of your contract is basically zero, especially if you're not going to use it, and they can get a few more dollars by being a jackass about it. In aggregate the incentives dominate.

_hcuq 2y ago
Yes. The problem is the current law. Which needs to be changed. Make these predatory contracts illegal.
- conradev 2y ago
  I don't think these sorts of contracts should be illegal. I think a lot of things around them should be, like gyms requiring you to go in-person to cancel, or offering a terrible phone service to cancel, or marketing it deceptively such that you were unaware it was a contract. But getting a discount in exchange for a longer-term commitment is often a benefit to consumers. I just paid Visible for a year of cellular service up front and it was far cheaper than paying monthly – truly a great deal. I was able to front that money now, but if I paid a slightly higher per-month price in exchange for a year contract, that would be the same but with less money required up front.
  - cogman10 2y ago
    There are contracts that are basically impossible to terminate and offer basically no benefit to anyone, timeshares is a key example of it. A problem with our contract law is that if you get anything out of a contract it becomes really hard to terminate if the terms don't allow for it (a peppercorn). With contracts now being written in dense legalese with multiple pages of terms and conditions, it's not really feasible to expect the common contractor to have a full understanding of exactly what they are signing up for.
    - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
      A timeshare is purchasing fractional ownership. That's different than purchasing a service.
  - AlexandrB 2y ago
    > But getting a discount in exchange for a longer-term commitment is often a benefit to consumers. This is already framing it in marketing terms. You're not getting a discount but being charged an artificial price premium for less/no commitment. This can get especially obscene in places where gyms are required by law to offer monthly membership options but they charge a significant markup if you go that route. All of this has the effect of suppressing competition.
    - conradev 2y ago
      It is absolutely not just marketing: https://commoncog.com/cash-flow-games/ https://commoncog.com/cash-flow-games/ Jump to "Pre-payments in the Restaurant Industry" Money now is more valuable than money later, and guaranteed future money is more valuable than no guaranteed future money.
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  I don't think this is a bad idea. Each month you would confirm whether you want to continue with the service, and if you say no or don't respond, it stops. If you think this would be annoying, then pay for a year (or more) in advance. This method would in theory reduce/remove the ability for folks to perform mid-month chargebacks under the guise of "I forgot to cancel".
  - CSMastermind 2y ago
    I don't think you even have to be that extreme. Just make it so that you can remove the authorization of vendors to charge you. You see a vendor charging you for a service you no longer want - click a button and remove their authorization to charge you.
    - FireBeyond 2y ago
      Yet currently, we have the opposite, financial institutions will "helpfully" update your card details with merchants you have recurring charges with. Years ago at Key Bank I even argued with a teller and manager about blocking a recalcitrant merchant from charging our account, "But you have ongoing charges with them and if we decline the transaction..." Yeah, that's between me and them, you shouldn't be inserting into this to 'obligate' me to pay.
pbhjpbhj 2y ago
Cancelling of a subscription payment, without simultaneously notifying eg continuation (such as through an alternate payment means), is a clear and unequivocal indication of termination of the agreement for which the payment was being made. A company has a simple avenue to avoid inadvertent cancellation, they just ask the customer "did you mean to cancel, please contact us by $date to continue your subscription". But that's preferring the citizen over business interests.
- bluGill 2y ago
  If it is easy to cancel then you should cancel. However if it is hard have your credit card cancel for you. (not all will, but some will) The advantage is they work for you and can put pressure on merchants to make it easy so they don't have to be the middleman.

_hcuq 2y ago

Yes. The problem is the current law. Which needs to be changed. Make these predatory contracts illegal.

conradev 2y ago
I don't think these sorts of contracts should be illegal. I think a lot of things around them should be, like gyms requiring you to go in-person to cancel, or offering a terrible phone service to cancel, or marketing it deceptively such that you were unaware it was a contract. But getting a discount in exchange for a longer-term commitment is often a benefit to consumers. I just paid Visible for a year of cellular service up front and it was far cheaper than paying monthly – truly a great deal. I was able to front that money now, but if I paid a slightly higher per-month price in exchange for a year contract, that would be the same but with less money required up front.
- cogman10 2y ago
  There are contracts that are basically impossible to terminate and offer basically no benefit to anyone, timeshares is a key example of it. A problem with our contract law is that if you get anything out of a contract it becomes really hard to terminate if the terms don't allow for it (a peppercorn). With contracts now being written in dense legalese with multiple pages of terms and conditions, it's not really feasible to expect the common contractor to have a full understanding of exactly what they are signing up for.
  - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
    A timeshare is purchasing fractional ownership. That's different than purchasing a service.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  > But getting a discount in exchange for a longer-term commitment is often a benefit to consumers. This is already framing it in marketing terms. You're not getting a discount but being charged an artificial price premium for less/no commitment. This can get especially obscene in places where gyms are required by law to offer monthly membership options but they charge a significant markup if you go that route. All of this has the effect of suppressing competition.
  - conradev 2y ago
    It is absolutely not just marketing: https://commoncog.com/cash-flow-games/ https://commoncog.com/cash-flow-games/ Jump to "Pre-payments in the Restaurant Industry" Money now is more valuable than money later, and guaranteed future money is more valuable than no guaranteed future money.
candiddevmike 2y ago
I don't think this is a bad idea. Each month you would confirm whether you want to continue with the service, and if you say no or don't respond, it stops. If you think this would be annoying, then pay for a year (or more) in advance. This method would in theory reduce/remove the ability for folks to perform mid-month chargebacks under the guise of "I forgot to cancel".
- CSMastermind 2y ago
  I don't think you even have to be that extreme. Just make it so that you can remove the authorization of vendors to charge you. You see a vendor charging you for a service you no longer want - click a button and remove their authorization to charge you.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    Yet currently, we have the opposite, financial institutions will "helpfully" update your card details with merchants you have recurring charges with. Years ago at Key Bank I even argued with a teller and manager about blocking a recalcitrant merchant from charging our account, "But you have ongoing charges with them and if we decline the transaction..." Yeah, that's between me and them, you shouldn't be inserting into this to 'obligate' me to pay.

pbhjpbhj 2y ago

Cancelling of a subscription payment, without simultaneously notifying eg continuation (such as through an alternate payment means), is a clear and unequivocal indication of termination of the agreement for which the payment was being made. A company has a simple avenue to avoid inadvertent cancellation, they just ask the customer "did you mean to cancel, please contact us by $date to continue your subscription". But that's preferring the citizen over business interests.

bluGill 2y ago
If it is easy to cancel then you should cancel. However if it is hard have your credit card cancel for you. (not all will, but some will) The advantage is they work for you and can put pressure on merchants to make it easy so they don't have to be the middleman.