4 ms·

Not directly related to the topic at hand, but it amazes me how Dutch healthcare insurance does not cover dental care by default, and you have to get an extra p

Not directly related to the topic at hand, but it amazes me how Dutch healthcare insurance does not cover dental care by default, and you have to get an extra package for that. As if dental health is not part of my regular health? Why are teeth treated differently from the rest of the body?

throw4950sh06 2y ago
[flagged]
- viraptor 2y ago
  You lost at "European" and "everywhere in EU". The system is different between countries. For example Poland covers free annual review and basic procedures. (even if it's worse quality than on a private insurance) You're just trolling or really misinformed.
  - throw4950sh06 2y ago
    You said the same thing I said... You only get basic care to survive, nothing else. The system is different but this aspect is pretty much the same everywhere around here.
    - viraptor 2y ago
      Having a repeating free review and treatment is above basic care to survive. Both compared to many other places in the world now and historically.
      - throw4950sh06 2y ago
        I very much disagree, that's the most basic of basics. I don't care much what's happening in low income areas and especially not how it used to be historically. And the point is what happens when an issue is discovered - it's nice that they do checkups, it's not so nice that the treatment available is again only the most basic available and anything above is very expensive and not covered even partially.
- appendix-rock 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - throw4950sh06 2y ago
    I have taken my 3 decades of personal experience - hundreds of situations - and combined it with what my family, friends and acquaintances experienced. It's really not just me. And the national news say the exact same thing - healthcare is expensive, inadequate and unavailable (you wait for months - if you find a doctor that would take you, which is definitely not guaranteed).
andsens 2y ago
Here’s a good answer that tracks with what my parents, who are dentists, told me: https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/s/H4MsnWKatM https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/s/H4MsnWKatM > For the longest time, surgeons, dentists and optometrists weren't part of the medical profession. You'd have a barber who could give you a shave or pull your teeth, or a butcher who could cut up a hog, or cut off your gangrenous leg. Optometrists were craftsmen who made the spectacles in their shop. Doctors were University educated in Latin and Greek to read ancient medical texts and despised the uncouth yokels. > Surgeons muscled their way into the medical profession, originally with the help of the Royal Navy, who only had space for one or two people in charge of both cutting off legs and looking after crew health on their ships. > Dentists and optometrists never did, so they started their own universities, certification boards, etc. By the time they became respectable enough for people to try to merge them with the medical establishment, in the 1920s, they had no desire to give up their independence. > The first insurance policies were private contracts with groups of doctors and the system developed from there. Details vary from country to country of course, but the gist of it generally holds true.
- bonoboTP 2y ago
  Note that "optometrist" is distinct from "ophthalmologist", which is the actual eye doctor. The optometrist job is only about fitting glasses and contacts for near/farsightedness, while ophthalmologists can treat all manners of eye diseases. And the final form of dentists, oral-maxillofacial surgeons are an all in one and have to study general medicine, surgery and dentistry.
  - razakel 2y ago
    An optician fits lenses, an optometrist measures your vision (and can refer you to an ophthalmologist if they spot something unusual).
- matwood 2y ago
  A friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon and says he's basically a carpenter.
bonoboTP 2y ago
Not sure about Dutch, but in Germany and many other countries, basic dental care is included in the default public health insurance. But it's basic. So it won't be necessarily beautiful, the color may look less nice, they may pull out teeth that could be saved with more money etc. But indeed since it's part of the body, you can get it fixed to a basic level.
trashface 2y ago
In the US it is the same. The result is many people do not have dental insurance, and even if you do it often doesn't pay for much. Even our medicare (for old people) doesn't cover it. Thus some people cynically refer to teeth as "luxury bones".
- wrycoder 2y ago
  In my experience (average teeth), dental insurance doesn't pay out enough to cover the premiums, and it's not worth the bother.
  - cruffle_duffle 2y ago
    For private dental insurance yes. It almost never makes sense to get private dental insurance and it’s almost always better to pay out of pocket. I mean think about it from the insurer’s point of view. The only reason you’d ever get “the platinum” dental plan is if you were planning to use it. And it isn’t like you have that many “dental emergencies” if you have healthy teeth. If you don’t have healthy teeth you’d already know it when you pick out the insurance plan, so of course you’d get the upper tier. The only scenario where it makes sense is if your employer picks up a healthy portion of the premium, in which case you are basically getting dental care subsidized by your employer. In that case you’ll likely come out ahead because you knew in advance pretty much how much dental care you’d need. The same goes for vision care, really. You know in advance how many contacts, glasses and eye exams you’ll need. It isn’t really an insurable thing. If your employer pays for most of the premium, it’s employer subsidized eyewear & contacts for you! …of course the math does change a bit when you have to pick the same type of plan for a family. In that case it’s time to bust out a spreadsheet and do the math to see the optimal course.
    - ipqk 2y ago
      It's also tax-payer subsidized (i.e. regressive, because it's mostly higher-income people that get dental insurance) because it's money from your employer that you or your employer don't have to pay taxes on.
red-iron-pine 2y ago
Canada too. Some rumblings about it at the Federal level, but we'll see if that changes. Apparently teeth are luxury bones
amluto 2y ago
It’s an interesting case study in the US. Want to see a doctor for a minor issue? Good luck knowing the price in advance. Want to see a dentist? Ask for pricing on the phone, and you’ll get it.
- DowagerDave 2y ago
  Not my experience in Canada. I went around to dentists and asked for their rates and none of them gave me the equivalent of a take-out menu for basic procedures. Why not?
Vinnl 2y ago
What's extra fun is that that insurance only covers treatments to a fairly low amount, just slightly higher than the price of your regular checkups. (That said, I believe dental issues that are the result of e.g. accidents do get covered by the default care package.)
- ipqk 2y ago
  I've been self-employed for years now (USA), and never buy dental insurance, because it's not really insurance, it's basically a non-taxable way for companies to give their employees extra money. Buying it as self-employed persons is basically just giving the "insurance" companies your own money.
  - kbelder 2y ago
    Isn't medical insurance the same? On average, the sum benefit you get from insurance is less than the total amount you pay.

throw4950sh06 2y ago

[flagged]

viraptor 2y ago
You lost at "European" and "everywhere in EU". The system is different between countries. For example Poland covers free annual review and basic procedures. (even if it's worse quality than on a private insurance) You're just trolling or really misinformed.
- throw4950sh06 2y ago
  You said the same thing I said... You only get basic care to survive, nothing else. The system is different but this aspect is pretty much the same everywhere around here.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    Having a repeating free review and treatment is above basic care to survive. Both compared to many other places in the world now and historically.
    - throw4950sh06 2y ago
      I very much disagree, that's the most basic of basics. I don't care much what's happening in low income areas and especially not how it used to be historically. And the point is what happens when an issue is discovered - it's nice that they do checkups, it's not so nice that the treatment available is again only the most basic available and anything above is very expensive and not covered even partially.
appendix-rock 2y ago
[flagged]
- throw4950sh06 2y ago
  I have taken my 3 decades of personal experience - hundreds of situations - and combined it with what my family, friends and acquaintances experienced. It's really not just me. And the national news say the exact same thing - healthcare is expensive, inadequate and unavailable (you wait for months - if you find a doctor that would take you, which is definitely not guaranteed).

andsens 2y ago

Here’s a good answer that tracks with what my parents, who are dentists, told me: https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/s/H4MsnWKatM https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/s/H4MsnWKatM > For the longest time, surgeons, dentists and optometrists weren't part of the medical profession. You'd have a barber who could give you a shave or pull your teeth, or a butcher who could cut up a hog, or cut off your gangrenous leg. Optometrists were craftsmen who made the spectacles in their shop. Doctors were University educated in Latin and Greek to read ancient medical texts and despised the uncouth yokels. > Surgeons muscled their way into the medical profession, originally with the help of the Royal Navy, who only had space for one or two people in charge of both cutting off legs and looking after crew health on their ships. > Dentists and optometrists never did, so they started their own universities, certification boards, etc. By the time they became respectable enough for people to try to merge them with the medical establishment, in the 1920s, they had no desire to give up their independence. > The first insurance policies were private contracts with groups of doctors and the system developed from there. Details vary from country to country of course, but the gist of it generally holds true.

bonoboTP 2y ago
Note that "optometrist" is distinct from "ophthalmologist", which is the actual eye doctor. The optometrist job is only about fitting glasses and contacts for near/farsightedness, while ophthalmologists can treat all manners of eye diseases. And the final form of dentists, oral-maxillofacial surgeons are an all in one and have to study general medicine, surgery and dentistry.
- razakel 2y ago
  An optician fits lenses, an optometrist measures your vision (and can refer you to an ophthalmologist if they spot something unusual).
matwood 2y ago
A friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon and says he's basically a carpenter.

bonoboTP 2y ago

Not sure about Dutch, but in Germany and many other countries, basic dental care is included in the default public health insurance. But it's basic. So it won't be necessarily beautiful, the color may look less nice, they may pull out teeth that could be saved with more money etc. But indeed since it's part of the body, you can get it fixed to a basic level.

trashface 2y ago

In the US it is the same. The result is many people do not have dental insurance, and even if you do it often doesn't pay for much. Even our medicare (for old people) doesn't cover it. Thus some people cynically refer to teeth as "luxury bones".

wrycoder 2y ago
In my experience (average teeth), dental insurance doesn't pay out enough to cover the premiums, and it's not worth the bother.
- cruffle_duffle 2y ago
  For private dental insurance yes. It almost never makes sense to get private dental insurance and it’s almost always better to pay out of pocket. I mean think about it from the insurer’s point of view. The only reason you’d ever get “the platinum” dental plan is if you were planning to use it. And it isn’t like you have that many “dental emergencies” if you have healthy teeth. If you don’t have healthy teeth you’d already know it when you pick out the insurance plan, so of course you’d get the upper tier. The only scenario where it makes sense is if your employer picks up a healthy portion of the premium, in which case you are basically getting dental care subsidized by your employer. In that case you’ll likely come out ahead because you knew in advance pretty much how much dental care you’d need. The same goes for vision care, really. You know in advance how many contacts, glasses and eye exams you’ll need. It isn’t really an insurable thing. If your employer pays for most of the premium, it’s employer subsidized eyewear & contacts for you! …of course the math does change a bit when you have to pick the same type of plan for a family. In that case it’s time to bust out a spreadsheet and do the math to see the optimal course.
  - ipqk 2y ago
    It's also tax-payer subsidized (i.e. regressive, because it's mostly higher-income people that get dental insurance) because it's money from your employer that you or your employer don't have to pay taxes on.

red-iron-pine 2y ago

Canada too. Some rumblings about it at the Federal level, but we'll see if that changes. Apparently teeth are luxury bones

amluto 2y ago

It’s an interesting case study in the US. Want to see a doctor for a minor issue? Good luck knowing the price in advance. Want to see a dentist? Ask for pricing on the phone, and you’ll get it.

DowagerDave 2y ago
Not my experience in Canada. I went around to dentists and asked for their rates and none of them gave me the equivalent of a take-out menu for basic procedures. Why not?

Vinnl 2y ago

What's extra fun is that that insurance only covers treatments to a fairly low amount, just slightly higher than the price of your regular checkups. (That said, I believe dental issues that are the result of e.g. accidents do get covered by the default care package.)

ipqk 2y ago
I've been self-employed for years now (USA), and never buy dental insurance, because it's not really insurance, it's basically a non-taxable way for companies to give their employees extra money. Buying it as self-employed persons is basically just giving the "insurance" companies your own money.
- kbelder 2y ago
  Isn't medical insurance the same? On average, the sum benefit you get from insurance is less than the total amount you pay.