8 ms·

This would be amazing for backcountry communication - e.g when backpacking with a large group. Is there any way to enable this for iOS?

capitainenemo 2y ago
I wonder how good the range would be. I was thinking that even if I didn't have the appropriate license, having something like this in a pocket on my backpack would at least give me one more signaling option in an emergency. I could deal with the fines later.
- cactacea 2y ago
  Generally speaking, line of sight. Assuming you're in the US, the FCC wouldn't come after you for using this in an emergency situation unless you were being absolutely egregious about stomping on other emergency comms, even then I seriously doubt you'd see a fine. Having said that you're basically going to need enough knowledge to pass the test to make use of this anyway. Why not just take the test and be legal?
  - capitainenemo 2y ago
    Don't you have to register with your personal address in a public database?
    - b112 2y ago
      You mean like virtually everyone did, with phone books?
      - capitainenemo 2y ago
        Well, for white pages, it used to be name to phone number lookup, not, you know, physical address, in almost all cases. Yellow pages were different ofc. And the tide against that turned 20 years ago, which congress banned that for cellphones. In any case, sounds like "yes". Not a deal breaker, but concerning. I know folks in my home would be opposed to my doing it.
        quesera 2y ago
        > not, you know, physical address White pages had physical address too. In practice, even today without published phone directories, lookup from name to address is readily accomplished from public records. If you have put in the effort to avoid all of those vectors, then it's equally possible to use a safe address for your FCC registration.
        capitainenemo 2y ago
        Sometimes yes, not always, and practice decreased as privacy concerns increased. The old one for our city that was still printed up to about a decade ago did not have them. And yeah, could probably find some way to spoof. And yes, people can find things, just makes folks here uncomfortable that it would be readily available to a random nut in a short list linked to a "pseudo" one might be using routinely. Anyway. It's one more hassle and disincentive. I'm interested in its potential for an emergency out in the woods (I'd be carrying my phone anyway, so a tiny pocket dongle is far less weight than a radio), but if I learn how to use it, I probably won't go for the license.
        quesera 2y ago
        Agreed -- I'm with you 100% on the opsec hygiene regiment. But FWIW, I think "Firstname Lastname Postal_Address" has never been easily kept private (indeed, the winning strategy is subterfuge), and that adding "Callsign" does not change that equation. Of course it does mean that you shouldn't use your callsign as a pseudonym online. And I am not a person who is comfortable with the idea of a ham vanity plate! :) But with proper hygiene, your callsign is just an arbitrary alphanumeric string that is attached in exactly one place, to another instance of your name/address in the wild. One thing getting a license would do, is give you an idea of how to maximize your tx/rx options. Understanding RF propagation in varied terrain could be valuable in an emergency situation. If you already know this stuff, then the license exams are very easy.
        capitainenemo 2y ago
    - myself248 2y ago
      Yes. You can use a PO box, but since all past addresses and changes are visible in the database, you have to get the PO box _before_ you get your very first license, in order for it to be meaningful.
- sidewndr46 2y ago
  just get something that transmit on one of the emergency frequencies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_emergency_frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_emergency_frequency so long as you use it for an actual emergency, there are no issues
- _whiteCaps_ 2y ago
  VHF / 2m is basically line of sight. But it will go for long distances. I've worked the repeater on the ISS with a 5W handheld radio and a 1/4 wave antenna.
  - ac29 2y ago
    VHF is actually pretty good for non line of sight (at least, better than everything higher frequency). Its not great for over the horizon communication, but its pretty good at getting through trees and other obstacles.
- kanbankaren 2y ago
  That range depends on the height of the antennaes(sender and receiver). I have been able to hear repeaters 150km away because it is on a hill.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  See https://www.n1fd.org/2019/03/23/tape-measure-yagi/ https://www.n1fd.org/2019/03/23/tape-measure-yagi/ for a upgrade to a 2 meter HT that will make it into a repeater 100 miles away under ordinary conditions and could go 300 miles under extraordinary conditions. You need to know the squelch keys for repeaters and get some practice, it never hurts to get to know the people who run the repeaters, check in on the nightly net, know who is listening. So it is worth getting the technician license, there is no Morse code, just a multiple choice test run by friendly hams. One rainy night I was talking to an amateur storm chaser who was reporting on conditions close to the inlet and asking why the repeater wasn’t so busy during storms like back in the day there were lots of storm chasers and I told him that NOAA advises people not to drive into flooding prone regions so most of us don’t do that because we don’t want to become part of the emergency. Other times in the rain the air is silent but you know there is at least one ham monitoring who will call 911.
sliken 2y ago
Might want to consider the meshtastic, something like a lilygo t-echo. A few advantages over the standard ham radio: * Nodes automatically forms a mesh * works with any android/IOS widget, simple text message like interface * store and forward means all nodes don't have to be online at the same time. * Cheap, no soldering, and no ham license required. * Can use phones GPS, makes it easy to track other nodes * Don't have to program in repeaters, every node can repeat.
- vvanders 2y ago
  Meshtastic(Lora) also doesn't require a license since it's in the ISM bands. Lora also has really good FEC and other things that make it work incredibly well(at the cost of throughput). Honestly I wish we saw more things like that in the ham bands(other than FT8). There's a couple Lora radios out there that are USB serial based and can be controlled with AT commands that would let you so something similar if you want to build up from scratch.
  - sidewndr46 2y ago
    This isn't true, it is not exclusive to the ISM bands. You can run it on any band you choose so long as you have a license to do so. Case in point: the ham bands
    - vvanders 2y ago
      Sure, that's "technically" correct but most usage of Lora is going to be in ISM since that's where they are traditionally deployed. That doesn't require a license which can be a hurdle if you don't already have one. I've got a ham license so not a big deal for me but for those wanting to try radios without a huge investment a pair of $20 Lora AT serial radios are a great way to dip into digital radio.
    - tzs 2y ago
      Note that various ham bands have limitations on what types of emissions are allowed. For example some only allow RTTY and data, so no phone or image. And some allow phone or image but no data. Even if the type of information is allowed there might be technical restrictions prohibiting some forms of modulation. So before using something that was designed depending on some non-ham part of the regulations for its legality, such as part 18 (ISM) in the US, on a ham band I'd want to look into the details and make sure it is not doing something under that part but not allowed under the ham regulations.
runjake 2y ago
I'd recommend something like a couple $25 Quansheng radios instead. More reliability, more range, less finicky, more durable and about the same size as this add-on. (For some reason the radios are showing as $30 right now) https://www.amazon.com/QUANSHENG-200Three-Frequency-Receiving-Replication/dp/B0CL939BVY/ https://www.amazon.com/QUANSHENG-200Three-Frequency-Receivin...
- cactacea 2y ago
  I own one of these, easily the worst radio I have. Fine for receive but please don't hit that transmit button.
  - runjake 2y ago
    Only N=2 but mine have worked great for the 2 meter and FRS/GMRS bands, which is what one is probably going to use while in the back country. Definitely don't try 27 MHZ, or perhaps outside of the above bands at all. Are these Yaesu, Motorola, or Icom quality? No, but they're $25.
    - transcriptase 2y ago
      Yeah I have 4 that are great 2m/70cm, which is what the included antennas are optimized for. Even better with a cheap Nagoya antenna and non-stock firmware. Unfortunately people don’t realize that even if you install a firmware that allows down to 11m, even connected to a $1200 base antenna the power output will be in the milliwatt range while throwing off on harmonics. There’s also the case of hardware inconsistency and fakes. When I hook up 4 of the included antennas to my VNA there’s pretty big variance, and I recently tested a fake Nagoya that was clearly tuned for air band and not 70cm/2m as advertised.
  - stavros 2y ago
    Why? What happens?
    - agiacalone 2y ago
tastyfreeze 2y ago
Decent walkie-talkies are cheap. Cheap enough that I bought some for my kids to play with instead of a single channel garbage radio like I had as a kid. If you really want a cheap programmable radio Yaesu and BaoFeng are the brands most people go with.
- quite 2y ago
  Could you point me at such decent walkie-talkie?
  - tastyfreeze 2y ago
    Midland Xtra Talk are the ones I got my kids.
  - bronco21016 2y ago
    I bought these[1] for my daughter. We use them while camping. Range is around 1-1.5 miles in hilly, wooded terrain. [1] https://a.co/d/64LVWel https://a.co/d/64LVWel
- itomato 2y ago
  Decent Walkies are FRS blister pack radios now.
grendelt 2y ago
> This would be amazing for backcountry communication At 1W, you'd be better served with little FRS/GMRS radios. Better still, for less than the cost of building this yourself, you can buy ready-made a Baofeng UV-5R for under $20. The antenna is a little crummy, but you can buy that and _still_ be under the $30 build price. Further, the Baofeng isn't supporting a whole operating system so the battery will last much longer. I wouldn't want my "always-on" phone draining its battery until I need to transmit to someone. 1W is only going to be useful to hit repeaters in an urban environment - but because it's 2m (and not 70cm), it's even less likely to be all that useful beyond a neat/fun build.

capitainenemo 2y ago

I wonder how good the range would be. I was thinking that even if I didn't have the appropriate license, having something like this in a pocket on my backpack would at least give me one more signaling option in an emergency. I could deal with the fines later.

cactacea 2y ago
Generally speaking, line of sight. Assuming you're in the US, the FCC wouldn't come after you for using this in an emergency situation unless you were being absolutely egregious about stomping on other emergency comms, even then I seriously doubt you'd see a fine. Having said that you're basically going to need enough knowledge to pass the test to make use of this anyway. Why not just take the test and be legal?
- capitainenemo 2y ago
  Don't you have to register with your personal address in a public database?
  - b112 2y ago
    You mean like virtually everyone did, with phone books?
    - capitainenemo 2y ago
      Well, for white pages, it used to be name to phone number lookup, not, you know, physical address, in almost all cases. Yellow pages were different ofc. And the tide against that turned 20 years ago, which congress banned that for cellphones. In any case, sounds like "yes". Not a deal breaker, but concerning. I know folks in my home would be opposed to my doing it.
      - quesera 2y ago
        > not, you know, physical address White pages had physical address too. In practice, even today without published phone directories, lookup from name to address is readily accomplished from public records. If you have put in the effort to avoid all of those vectors, then it's equally possible to use a safe address for your FCC registration.
        capitainenemo 2y ago
        Sometimes yes, not always, and practice decreased as privacy concerns increased. The old one for our city that was still printed up to about a decade ago did not have them. And yeah, could probably find some way to spoof. And yes, people can find things, just makes folks here uncomfortable that it would be readily available to a random nut in a short list linked to a "pseudo" one might be using routinely. Anyway. It's one more hassle and disincentive. I'm interested in its potential for an emergency out in the woods (I'd be carrying my phone anyway, so a tiny pocket dongle is far less weight than a radio), but if I learn how to use it, I probably won't go for the license.
        quesera 2y ago
        Agreed -- I'm with you 100% on the opsec hygiene regiment. But FWIW, I think "Firstname Lastname Postal_Address" has never been easily kept private (indeed, the winning strategy is subterfuge), and that adding "Callsign" does not change that equation. Of course it does mean that you shouldn't use your callsign as a pseudonym online. And I am not a person who is comfortable with the idea of a ham vanity plate! :) But with proper hygiene, your callsign is just an arbitrary alphanumeric string that is attached in exactly one place, to another instance of your name/address in the wild. One thing getting a license would do, is give you an idea of how to maximize your tx/rx options. Understanding RF propagation in varied terrain could be valuable in an emergency situation. If you already know this stuff, then the license exams are very easy.
        capitainenemo 2y ago
  - myself248 2y ago
    Yes. You can use a PO box, but since all past addresses and changes are visible in the database, you have to get the PO box _before_ you get your very first license, in order for it to be meaningful.
sidewndr46 2y ago
just get something that transmit on one of the emergency frequencies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_emergency_frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_emergency_frequency so long as you use it for an actual emergency, there are no issues
_whiteCaps_ 2y ago
VHF / 2m is basically line of sight. But it will go for long distances. I've worked the repeater on the ISS with a 5W handheld radio and a 1/4 wave antenna.
- ac29 2y ago
  VHF is actually pretty good for non line of sight (at least, better than everything higher frequency). Its not great for over the horizon communication, but its pretty good at getting through trees and other obstacles.
kanbankaren 2y ago
That range depends on the height of the antennaes(sender and receiver). I have been able to hear repeaters 150km away because it is on a hill.
PaulHoule 2y ago
See https://www.n1fd.org/2019/03/23/tape-measure-yagi/ https://www.n1fd.org/2019/03/23/tape-measure-yagi/ for a upgrade to a 2 meter HT that will make it into a repeater 100 miles away under ordinary conditions and could go 300 miles under extraordinary conditions. You need to know the squelch keys for repeaters and get some practice, it never hurts to get to know the people who run the repeaters, check in on the nightly net, know who is listening. So it is worth getting the technician license, there is no Morse code, just a multiple choice test run by friendly hams. One rainy night I was talking to an amateur storm chaser who was reporting on conditions close to the inlet and asking why the repeater wasn’t so busy during storms like back in the day there were lots of storm chasers and I told him that NOAA advises people not to drive into flooding prone regions so most of us don’t do that because we don’t want to become part of the emergency. Other times in the rain the air is silent but you know there is at least one ham monitoring who will call 911.

sliken 2y ago

Might want to consider the meshtastic, something like a lilygo t-echo. A few advantages over the standard ham radio: * Nodes automatically forms a mesh * works with any android/IOS widget, simple text message like interface * store and forward means all nodes don't have to be online at the same time. * Cheap, no soldering, and no ham license required. * Can use phones GPS, makes it easy to track other nodes * Don't have to program in repeaters, every node can repeat.

vvanders 2y ago
Meshtastic(Lora) also doesn't require a license since it's in the ISM bands. Lora also has really good FEC and other things that make it work incredibly well(at the cost of throughput). Honestly I wish we saw more things like that in the ham bands(other than FT8). There's a couple Lora radios out there that are USB serial based and can be controlled with AT commands that would let you so something similar if you want to build up from scratch.
- sidewndr46 2y ago
  This isn't true, it is not exclusive to the ISM bands. You can run it on any band you choose so long as you have a license to do so. Case in point: the ham bands
  - vvanders 2y ago
    Sure, that's "technically" correct but most usage of Lora is going to be in ISM since that's where they are traditionally deployed. That doesn't require a license which can be a hurdle if you don't already have one. I've got a ham license so not a big deal for me but for those wanting to try radios without a huge investment a pair of $20 Lora AT serial radios are a great way to dip into digital radio.
  - tzs 2y ago
    Note that various ham bands have limitations on what types of emissions are allowed. For example some only allow RTTY and data, so no phone or image. And some allow phone or image but no data. Even if the type of information is allowed there might be technical restrictions prohibiting some forms of modulation. So before using something that was designed depending on some non-ham part of the regulations for its legality, such as part 18 (ISM) in the US, on a ham band I'd want to look into the details and make sure it is not doing something under that part but not allowed under the ham regulations.

runjake 2y ago

I'd recommend something like a couple $25 Quansheng radios instead. More reliability, more range, less finicky, more durable and about the same size as this add-on. (For some reason the radios are showing as $30 right now) https://www.amazon.com/QUANSHENG-200Three-Frequency-Receiving-Replication/dp/B0CL939BVY/ https://www.amazon.com/QUANSHENG-200Three-Frequency-Receivin...

cactacea 2y ago
I own one of these, easily the worst radio I have. Fine for receive but please don't hit that transmit button.
- runjake 2y ago
  Only N=2 but mine have worked great for the 2 meter and FRS/GMRS bands, which is what one is probably going to use while in the back country. Definitely don't try 27 MHZ, or perhaps outside of the above bands at all. Are these Yaesu, Motorola, or Icom quality? No, but they're $25.
  - transcriptase 2y ago
    Yeah I have 4 that are great 2m/70cm, which is what the included antennas are optimized for. Even better with a cheap Nagoya antenna and non-stock firmware. Unfortunately people don’t realize that even if you install a firmware that allows down to 11m, even connected to a $1200 base antenna the power output will be in the milliwatt range while throwing off on harmonics. There’s also the case of hardware inconsistency and fakes. When I hook up 4 of the included antennas to my VNA there’s pretty big variance, and I recently tested a fake Nagoya that was clearly tuned for air band and not 70cm/2m as advertised.
- stavros 2y ago
  Why? What happens?
  - agiacalone 2y ago

tastyfreeze 2y ago

Decent walkie-talkies are cheap. Cheap enough that I bought some for my kids to play with instead of a single channel garbage radio like I had as a kid. If you really want a cheap programmable radio Yaesu and BaoFeng are the brands most people go with.

quite 2y ago
Could you point me at such decent walkie-talkie?
- tastyfreeze 2y ago
  Midland Xtra Talk are the ones I got my kids.
- bronco21016 2y ago
  I bought these[1] for my daughter. We use them while camping. Range is around 1-1.5 miles in hilly, wooded terrain. [1] https://a.co/d/64LVWel https://a.co/d/64LVWel
itomato 2y ago
Decent Walkies are FRS blister pack radios now.

grendelt 2y ago

> This would be amazing for backcountry communication At 1W, you'd be better served with little FRS/GMRS radios. Better still, for less than the cost of building this yourself, you can buy ready-made a Baofeng UV-5R for under $20. The antenna is a little crummy, but you can buy that and _still_ be under the $30 build price. Further, the Baofeng isn't supporting a whole operating system so the battery will last much longer. I wouldn't want my "always-on" phone draining its battery until I need to transmit to someone. 1W is only going to be useful to hit repeaters in an urban environment - but because it's 2m (and not 70cm), it's even less likely to be all that useful beyond a neat/fun build.