5 ms·

Is there any materially demonstrable evidence that tiktok is worse than other social media networks?

yapyap 2y ago
No, well at least not anymore since they have all implemented the infinite scrolling portrait mode feed; YouTube, Snapchat, Instagram, Spotify, Netflix I’m not sure about Twitter
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
  What's "social" about Netflix? I agree that their UI is terrible, but it doesn't fit in the list
foolfoolz 2y ago
it’s just the most popular. they are all the same. it’s less about the technology and more about why so many humans feel the need to spend so much time using it
pragmomm 2y ago
Former TikTok exec: Chinese Communist Party had “God mode” entry to US data https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2023/06/former-tiktok-executive-says-chinese-communist-party-members-had-god-mode-entry-to-tiktok-data https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2023/06/former-tiktok... Two academic studies argue that TikTok favors Chinese government views, and a new analysis says TikTok's parent firm is entangled with government propaganda organs. https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/tiktok-says-not-spreading-chinese-propaganda-us-says-real-risk-rcna171201 https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/tiktok-says-not-sprea...
- mistermann 2y ago
  "evidence is worse than". Excellent start on one side of the story though.
  - andrewflnr 2y ago
    Even if we grant that US-based apps give similar access to the USG (I don't know, I just know it's a likely claim that I don't care to dispute), it's ludicrous to say that it's just as acceptable to give that access to the Chinese government. If you think those are equivalent you have not been paying attention.
    - mistermann 2y ago
      Is there adequate content in my short comment that substantiates the full model you've formed of my stance in your mind? Ironically, if you tune your TikTok feed carefully, it can offer plenty of great learning material on human psychology and cultural cognition, I highly recommend it. I also recommend the YouTube channel Asian Boss, I enjoy watching how frequently Asian people pause to think before answering questions posed to them, they seem unable to immediately know the correct answer like most westerners.
      - andrewflnr 2y ago
        You quote "evidence is worse than" for emphasis, suggesting that you don't find that standard to be met by evidence that TikTok gives major inside access to an actively repressive and genocidal government. That suggests you think other social platforms are equal or worse, somehow, but you don't give any basis for that idea. Indeed your commentary consists entirely of snarky side tangents, rather than actual arguments. If you mean something other than the obvious interpretation, you best be explicit.
        mistermann 2y ago
        > Indeed your commentary consists entirely of snarky side tangents I informed you that you are describing a model. And asked you a question about it, which you did not answer. You are presenting your uncharitable take as representative of my stance, and then knocking it down with ease. Might the same be happening with China in discussions in Western media (mainstream, social, etc)? How could "worseness" of various platforms and these two countries even be calculated in a reasonably objective, unbiased manner? Is such a thing even possible?
windowsrookie 2y ago
TikTok is a never-ending feed of algorithm optimized short videos designed to perpetually give you a dopamine rush. In my opinion it is absolutely bad for most people's mental health. Essentially all other social media platforms have now copied TikTok and do the same. I still refuse to use TikTok and I never YouTube shorts.
- akomtu 2y ago
  Imo, tiktoks and facebooks work by destabilizing emotions: they take users on a wild ride thru disgusting and pleasant emotions in an unpredictable manner. This unpredictability of the ride turns off the mind: the user learns that engaging the mind makes no difference and turns it off, leaving more room for the raw emotions. It's not a stretch to say that algorithmic media feed works by muting the human in the users and engaging the animal in them.
kristopolous 2y ago
I'd imagine teens with smartphones making poor decisions is perennial and any UGC site needs to have a strategy for dealing with it. Strangely, you'll find many people, specifically on HN that want to attribute a separate maniacal agency to tiktok as if it's some cold war brainwave voodoo project sabotaging America. As if twitter, reddit, tumblr, youtube and instagram don't have similar problems.
- safety1st 2y ago
  Yours is really the worst type of post that anyone can make here. Just because it's an election year doesn't mean we have to turn every damned topic into a red/blue culture war dripping with hostile political rhetoric. Embrace the better part of your nature or take it out of here and back to Reddit please.
  - kristopolous 2y ago
    How do you read that from my comment? This thread is full of speculative conspiracy theories because TikTok is Chinese owned. Almost all social media site have a content-creator monetization platform. Facebook has had it since 2017. X does. YouTube does. You think Instagram doesn't have a CSAM problem? This is about a long history of the west attributing secret conspiracies to Asian people. We acknowledge this when it's about things like Cholera conspiracies in the 1800s but somehow cannot see it when it happens in our own time. Social Media is inherently exploitative regardless of the nationality doing it. This problem is not platform exclusive and pretending like it is makes solving it impossible just like how the Chinese exclusion act didn't cure Cholera. (https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Chinese_as_Medical_Scapegoats,_1870-1905 https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Chinese_as_Medical_S...)
  - krageon 2y ago
    What are you talking about? The GP doesn't even mention elections
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
timst4 2y ago
The fact that Tiktok wholesale bought the user base for musical.ly, largely preteen children, and converted them to an entirely different app meant to addict them and harvest their data seems pretty unconscionable.
xtiansimon 2y ago
Can’t answer your question directly, but I found this 2022 episode of a16z podcast insightful about the niche/innovations of the product: Tiktok’s Algorithm and Creativity Network Effects Eugene Wei and Sonal Chokshi Add sexy content, and you have formula for addiction. Heck, I’m struggling with fly fishing shorts and tv show clips on Instagram and YouTube. 30-60 minutes 3-4 times per week. Meanwhile my Stackoverflow, EDx, and smart people podcast consumption has gone to zero. I feel like a nerd bum. https://a16z.com/podcast/tiktoks-algorithm-and-creativity-network-effects/ https://a16z.com/podcast/tiktoks-algorithm-and-creativity-ne...

No, well at least not anymore since they have all implemented the infinite scrolling portrait mode feed; YouTube, Snapchat, Instagram, Spotify, Netflix I’m not sure about Twitter

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
What's "social" about Netflix? I agree that their UI is terrible, but it doesn't fit in the list

foolfoolz 2y ago

it’s just the most popular. they are all the same. it’s less about the technology and more about why so many humans feel the need to spend so much time using it

pragmomm 2y ago

Former TikTok exec: Chinese Communist Party had “God mode” entry to US data https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2023/06/former-tiktok-executive-says-chinese-communist-party-members-had-god-mode-entry-to-tiktok-data https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2023/06/former-tiktok... Two academic studies argue that TikTok favors Chinese government views, and a new analysis says TikTok's parent firm is entangled with government propaganda organs. https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/tiktok-says-not-spreading-chinese-propaganda-us-says-real-risk-rcna171201 https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/tiktok-says-not-sprea...

mistermann 2y ago
"evidence is worse than". Excellent start on one side of the story though.
- andrewflnr 2y ago
  Even if we grant that US-based apps give similar access to the USG (I don't know, I just know it's a likely claim that I don't care to dispute), it's ludicrous to say that it's just as acceptable to give that access to the Chinese government. If you think those are equivalent you have not been paying attention.
  - mistermann 2y ago
    Is there adequate content in my short comment that substantiates the full model you've formed of my stance in your mind? Ironically, if you tune your TikTok feed carefully, it can offer plenty of great learning material on human psychology and cultural cognition, I highly recommend it. I also recommend the YouTube channel Asian Boss, I enjoy watching how frequently Asian people pause to think before answering questions posed to them, they seem unable to immediately know the correct answer like most westerners.
    - andrewflnr 2y ago
      You quote "evidence is worse than" for emphasis, suggesting that you don't find that standard to be met by evidence that TikTok gives major inside access to an actively repressive and genocidal government. That suggests you think other social platforms are equal or worse, somehow, but you don't give any basis for that idea. Indeed your commentary consists entirely of snarky side tangents, rather than actual arguments. If you mean something other than the obvious interpretation, you best be explicit.
      - mistermann 2y ago
        > Indeed your commentary consists entirely of snarky side tangents I informed you that you are describing a model. And asked you a question about it, which you did not answer. You are presenting your uncharitable take as representative of my stance, and then knocking it down with ease. Might the same be happening with China in discussions in Western media (mainstream, social, etc)? How could "worseness" of various platforms and these two countries even be calculated in a reasonably objective, unbiased manner? Is such a thing even possible?

windowsrookie 2y ago

TikTok is a never-ending feed of algorithm optimized short videos designed to perpetually give you a dopamine rush. In my opinion it is absolutely bad for most people's mental health. Essentially all other social media platforms have now copied TikTok and do the same. I still refuse to use TikTok and I never YouTube shorts.

akomtu 2y ago
Imo, tiktoks and facebooks work by destabilizing emotions: they take users on a wild ride thru disgusting and pleasant emotions in an unpredictable manner. This unpredictability of the ride turns off the mind: the user learns that engaging the mind makes no difference and turns it off, leaving more room for the raw emotions. It's not a stretch to say that algorithmic media feed works by muting the human in the users and engaging the animal in them.

kristopolous 2y ago

I'd imagine teens with smartphones making poor decisions is perennial and any UGC site needs to have a strategy for dealing with it. Strangely, you'll find many people, specifically on HN that want to attribute a separate maniacal agency to tiktok as if it's some cold war brainwave voodoo project sabotaging America. As if twitter, reddit, tumblr, youtube and instagram don't have similar problems.

safety1st 2y ago
Yours is really the worst type of post that anyone can make here. Just because it's an election year doesn't mean we have to turn every damned topic into a red/blue culture war dripping with hostile political rhetoric. Embrace the better part of your nature or take it out of here and back to Reddit please.
- kristopolous 2y ago
  How do you read that from my comment? This thread is full of speculative conspiracy theories because TikTok is Chinese owned. Almost all social media site have a content-creator monetization platform. Facebook has had it since 2017. X does. YouTube does. You think Instagram doesn't have a CSAM problem? This is about a long history of the west attributing secret conspiracies to Asian people. We acknowledge this when it's about things like Cholera conspiracies in the 1800s but somehow cannot see it when it happens in our own time. Social Media is inherently exploitative regardless of the nationality doing it. This problem is not platform exclusive and pretending like it is makes solving it impossible just like how the Chinese exclusion act didn't cure Cholera. (https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Chinese_as_Medical_Scapegoats,_1870-1905 https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Chinese_as_Medical_S...)
- krageon 2y ago
  What are you talking about? The GP doesn't even mention elections

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

timst4 2y ago

The fact that Tiktok wholesale bought the user base for musical.ly, largely preteen children, and converted them to an entirely different app meant to addict them and harvest their data seems pretty unconscionable.

xtiansimon 2y ago

Can’t answer your question directly, but I found this 2022 episode of a16z podcast insightful about the niche/innovations of the product: Tiktok’s Algorithm and Creativity Network Effects Eugene Wei and Sonal Chokshi Add sexy content, and you have formula for addiction. Heck, I’m struggling with fly fishing shorts and tv show clips on Instagram and YouTube. 30-60 minutes 3-4 times per week. Meanwhile my Stackoverflow, EDx, and smart people podcast consumption has gone to zero. I feel like a nerd bum. https://a16z.com/podcast/tiktoks-algorithm-and-creativity-network-effects/ https://a16z.com/podcast/tiktoks-algorithm-and-creativity-ne...