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It’s also weird that Xinjiang and the Uyghur genocide get almost no commentary from the Arab Islamic world, even though the scale of violence against Muslims is

It’s also weird that Xinjiang and the Uyghur genocide get almost no commentary from the Arab Islamic world, even though the scale of violence against Muslims is far greater than the Israel-Arab conflict, by several orders of magnitude. To me it looks a lot like antisemitism - the smaller conflict matters only because it involves Jews.

g-b-r 2y ago
Far greater is very debatable, you get a similar number of killings only if the organ harvesting allegations are true. The Arab-islamic world is made up of autocracies; they don't need to care about a lot, and they indeed showed extremely little concern for the Palestinians as well.
- feedforward 2y ago
  Egypt is an autocracy because the US sends it billions of dollars to keep it an autocracy. Neither the US nor Israel want Egypt to be anything other than an autocracy. Regarding organ harvesting, the FBI arrested Israeli-connected illegal organ harvesters in the US, as reported by the New York Times. The Palestinians have complained about Israeli organ harvesting, and apparently the US is concerned about their illegal organ harvesting networks too.
  - g-b-r 2y ago
    For the first part, true, probably. For the second, I don't know anything about it For the Uighurs, there are allegations of 25.000 murders a year for organ harvesting in the Xinjiang.
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skissane 2y ago
> To me it looks a lot like antisemitism - the smaller conflict matters only because it involves Jews Jerusalem has a long-standing theological significance in Islam: it was originally the target of Muslim prayer (the qibla), until Mecca replaced it; Quran 17:1 mentions Muhammad’s supernatural “Night Journey” to the “Farthest Mosque”, which Islamic tradition identifies with the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Sunni eschatological traditions also mention Jerusalem as having a role to play in the “end times”. Aside from theology, Jerusalem also has a great historical significance, in that its reconquest from the Crusaders was considered an important turning point in global Islamic history. Given its position in-between Egypt and Syria, control of Jerusalem has been contested between competing Islamic empires many times over the centuries By contrast, Xinjiang has no established theological significance in Islam, and its history is a footnote in the overall history of Islam
- xdennis 2y ago
  > Quran 17:1 mentions Muhammad’s supernatural “Night Journey” to the “Farthest Mosque”, which Islamic tradition identifies with the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. The Farthest (Al-Aqsa) Mosque being in Jerusalem is a recent invention. The night journey is said to have happened in 621, but the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built in 637 when the Muslims captured Jerusalem. So the Al-Aqsa Mosque of the Quran is not the one currently called the Al-Aqsa Mosque.
  - deleted 2y ago
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  - skissane 2y ago
    > The Farthest (Al-Aqsa) Mosque being in Jerusalem is a recent invention. Do you have any evidence that Muslims have only "recently" started to claim it is in Jerusalem? From what I understand, they were already claiming that well over 1000 years ago. > The night journey is said to have happened in 621, but the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built in 637 when the Muslims captured Jerusalem. So the Al-Aqsa Mosque of the Quran is not the one currently called the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Standard explanation for this: "Al-Aqsa Mosque" has two senses, a broad sense and a narrow sense. In the broad sense, it is the entire complex of Islamic religious structures on the Temple Mount, centered on the Dome of the Rock. In a narrow sense, it is the main congregational prayer hall in that complex, the current building of which was constructed in the 1030s. The 637 structure you mention was a temporary wooden structure, which by the next century was replaced by a much grander stone one, which went on to twice be destroyed by earthquakes. So, since in the broad sense "Al-Aqsa Mosque" means the whole Temple Mount complex, of course the Temple Mount pre-existed the Islamic conquest of Jerusalem in 637 (around 5 years after Muhammad's death), and it was there for Muhammad to have supernaturally visited in 621 (if one believes he went on such a supernatural journey, I personally don't) Indeed, according to many Muslim accounts, the site Muhammad visited in 621 was not the site of the narrow sense mosque, it was the rock which the Dome of the Rock now covers.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  I don’t fully understand this. Jewish people lived in that region long before Islam was even invented. How could Muslims now claim that it has some sort of indispensable significance to their belief system? It is a region that already had a people and holds significance to others. Isn’t this just manufacturing an artificial claim?

g-b-r 2y ago

Far greater is very debatable, you get a similar number of killings only if the organ harvesting allegations are true. The Arab-islamic world is made up of autocracies; they don't need to care about a lot, and they indeed showed extremely little concern for the Palestinians as well.

feedforward 2y ago
Egypt is an autocracy because the US sends it billions of dollars to keep it an autocracy. Neither the US nor Israel want Egypt to be anything other than an autocracy. Regarding organ harvesting, the FBI arrested Israeli-connected illegal organ harvesters in the US, as reported by the New York Times. The Palestinians have complained about Israeli organ harvesting, and apparently the US is concerned about their illegal organ harvesting networks too.
- g-b-r 2y ago
  For the first part, true, probably. For the second, I don't know anything about it For the Uighurs, there are allegations of 25.000 murders a year for organ harvesting in the Xinjiang.

deleted 2y ago

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skissane 2y ago

> To me it looks a lot like antisemitism - the smaller conflict matters only because it involves Jews Jerusalem has a long-standing theological significance in Islam: it was originally the target of Muslim prayer (the qibla), until Mecca replaced it; Quran 17:1 mentions Muhammad’s supernatural “Night Journey” to the “Farthest Mosque”, which Islamic tradition identifies with the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Sunni eschatological traditions also mention Jerusalem as having a role to play in the “end times”. Aside from theology, Jerusalem also has a great historical significance, in that its reconquest from the Crusaders was considered an important turning point in global Islamic history. Given its position in-between Egypt and Syria, control of Jerusalem has been contested between competing Islamic empires many times over the centuries By contrast, Xinjiang has no established theological significance in Islam, and its history is a footnote in the overall history of Islam

xdennis 2y ago
> Quran 17:1 mentions Muhammad’s supernatural “Night Journey” to the “Farthest Mosque”, which Islamic tradition identifies with the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. The Farthest (Al-Aqsa) Mosque being in Jerusalem is a recent invention. The night journey is said to have happened in 621, but the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built in 637 when the Muslims captured Jerusalem. So the Al-Aqsa Mosque of the Quran is not the one currently called the Al-Aqsa Mosque.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- skissane 2y ago
  > The Farthest (Al-Aqsa) Mosque being in Jerusalem is a recent invention. Do you have any evidence that Muslims have only "recently" started to claim it is in Jerusalem? From what I understand, they were already claiming that well over 1000 years ago. > The night journey is said to have happened in 621, but the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built in 637 when the Muslims captured Jerusalem. So the Al-Aqsa Mosque of the Quran is not the one currently called the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Standard explanation for this: "Al-Aqsa Mosque" has two senses, a broad sense and a narrow sense. In the broad sense, it is the entire complex of Islamic religious structures on the Temple Mount, centered on the Dome of the Rock. In a narrow sense, it is the main congregational prayer hall in that complex, the current building of which was constructed in the 1030s. The 637 structure you mention was a temporary wooden structure, which by the next century was replaced by a much grander stone one, which went on to twice be destroyed by earthquakes. So, since in the broad sense "Al-Aqsa Mosque" means the whole Temple Mount complex, of course the Temple Mount pre-existed the Islamic conquest of Jerusalem in 637 (around 5 years after Muhammad's death), and it was there for Muhammad to have supernaturally visited in 621 (if one believes he went on such a supernatural journey, I personally don't) Indeed, according to many Muslim accounts, the site Muhammad visited in 621 was not the site of the narrow sense mosque, it was the rock which the Dome of the Rock now covers.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I don’t fully understand this. Jewish people lived in that region long before Islam was even invented. How could Muslims now claim that it has some sort of indispensable significance to their belief system? It is a region that already had a people and holds significance to others. Isn’t this just manufacturing an artificial claim?