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As a Danish person the most annoying thing about the American culture war is how it spreads to here. Nowhere near the scale, we still absolutely ridicule people

by devjab 2y ago

As a Danish person the most annoying thing about the American culture war is how it spreads to here. Nowhere near the scale, we still absolutely ridicule people who’d believe in most of the nonsense so that keeps it down. But it’s still here. I think what annoys me the most about it is how a lot of the bogus is very specifically “American”. When Qanon was a thing it was also a thing here. It’s so disappointing that our tinfoil hatters aren’t coming up with their own bogus about our own elite. If Obama was/is a lizard person, then why wouldn’t our Queen (at the time we have a King now) be a Lizard? We have our own rich elites, is Lars Larsen really dead or is he leading a secret shadow government? I do agree that the “reality vs fiction” battle, which has been raging for years now will get absolutely insane with AI created lies. I don’t think it’ll really continue to be that much of a battle though. We’re already living in a world where people have extremely different perceptions of reality, and it’ll probably be hard to teach critical thinking to the people who are already believing the bogus.

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
Haha they should follow the French music streaming model of taxing foreign stupidity in order to support domestic stupidity.
- devjab 2y ago
  You joke, but we don’t have to support it. Most of it is already paid for by the Russians. I just think it’s silly how they can get away with recycling the content they created for the US and still be successful with it even though a lot of it makes absolutely no sense in a Danish context.
jfengel 2y ago
The genius of America is finding the lowest common denominator, and commercializing it. The world hates everything we produce -- our food, our movies, our culture -- but they end up consuming it in droves. They complain that it has no taste, and they're right. But they underestimate how much everyone wants stuff that is plentiful, vapid, and cheap. It's no surprise that we similarly export our politics. Conspiracy theories are fast food. They come cheap, are accessible with no effort, and make you feel like you've gotten a lot. We didn't invent any of this but we've got a national genius for optimizing it.
- throw8984398 2y ago
  > The world hates everything we produce -- our food, our movies, our culture -- but they end up consuming it in droves. They complain that it has no taste, and they're right I think it is even worse for people who live in US. "American" food is different outside of US. For example there are norms in most countries for meat, so the "beef" burger has more meat. We have less limitations on allergens, so we can add peanuts for a taste. Also foreign Coca-Cola has proper sugar, not corn based fructose (Mexicoke). I can never eat in US, even chocolate tastes like vomit! As for cinema, only good stuff is released outside of US. There is no oligopoly in cinema, you get way more diversity in movies. Some countries have censorship that removes some type of scenes. And garbage TV shows, are never released on foreign markets.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    Those are all complaints about bottom-tier American food. A good cheeseburger from a local place is mindblowing. I had one with peanut butter on it last week; we still eat allergens but they have to be labeled. Mexican Coke is way better, true. You're talking about Hershey's chocolate bars which no one considers to be "the good stuff". If you're looking at McDonald's and saying American food sucks, you're missing a whole hell of a lot.
    - mixmastamyk 2y ago
      Yup, like complaining about Budweiser and Lipton tea. The 70s/80s called and want their argument back.
      - kstrauser 2y ago
        Solid analogy. Yes, we know there are better options and we use them. Also yes, the cheap and “good enough” options will always be popular for good reason. That doesn’t mean they’re the only ones.
  - AlbertCory 2y ago
    And therefore, we need censorship. Right? Where we'll be told the "correct" way to think. I'd rather see it all and decide for myself. And end up watching PBS but never, never pledging in their interminable pledge drives. Somehow, they still manage to stay on the air. By the way, in Hell they have PBS pledge drivers on the TV, 24x7, for all eternity. You can't mute the sound.
dboreham 2y ago
America has always tolerated enhanced levels of BS. I remember as a small kid finding US comics at the newsagent that had ads for "x-ray glasses". I thought that's amazing, why don't we have those here? We'll we didn't have them because they don't exist and it was illegal to sell stuff that doesn't exist where I lived.
- AStonesThrow 2y ago
  Here's my hot take: conspiracy theories and outlandish myths are America's version of Old World superstition and folklore. Study any European culture and how it was Christianized, and how the local culture, folklore, and mythology melded with religion to become a unique tapestry. Look at Ireland for a really pronounced example. Look at the folktales and revered fables that came out of those cultures for a synthesis of what rural folk really believed and talked about over dinner, and by the hearth in the evening times after work was done. But the United States has none of that. The New World came of age during the Enlightenment era of reason and rationality. Now we're in a post-Christian society, one rooted in science and empiricism, but we're still yearning for the supernatural, and it's manifesting in unique ways for us. Americans don't have faeries or unicorns or goblins, we've got chemtrails and little green men. Furthermore, as the U.S. and other New World cultures progress, we're making our own mythology and legends. Look at how much of the American Revolution and Civil War is already steeped in pious fairy tales, such as young Washington's cherry tree, Betsy Ross, Paul Revere, or that utterly fictional, feminist chick who supposedly rode horseback like Revere. Personally, I believe that this fake stuff that people believe is one of two things: either there are kernels of truth and allegory to them, that they're masking a deeper truth that's too dangerous to discuss openly or brazenly reveal; or that they're utter distractions and designed to keep people busy and concerned about utterly irrelevant things. Panem et circenses.
  - candiddevmike 2y ago
    There is tons of American folklore, and even more if you include native Americans. Hell "witchcraft" was more of prominent in early America than Europe, and fairies/fae like things are littered in native american histories. Conspiracy theories are a 20th century coping mechanism for an oversized, seemingly-omnipotent federal government.
mistermann 2y ago
All Humans believe the bogus, doing otherwise is not possible. I've yet to meet a Human for whom down the curve of their position is not ~idiocy, and up the curve is not ~pedantry (or something invalidating of a more absolute view on things). As long as the only serious problem is those other people, I think we remain trapped in this local maxima.
- CyberDildonics 2y ago
  I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but maybe when you see someone trying simplify you confuse it for idiocy and when you see someone trying to be specific you confuse it for 'pedantry'.
  - mistermann 2y ago
    > the people who are already believing the bogus This encompasses 100% of people so you would have been better of leaving it off as it downplays the severity of the situation we are in. > and when you see someone trying to be specific you confuse it for 'pedantry'. This is what ~smart people typically go for if one includes too much detail or accuracy in the context.
    - CyberDildonics 2y ago
      > the people who are already believing the bogus This encompasses 100% of people so you would have been better of leaving it off as it downplays the severity of the situation we are in. I didn't say that. This is what ~smart people typically go for if one includes too much detail or accuracy in the context. I lost track of what you are trying to say and why, sorry.
      - mistermann 2y ago
        > I didn't say that. That's why I'm complaining. > I lost track of what you are trying to say and why, sorry. Well I interpreted your comment as saying that I would accuse someone of pedantry, but it was me who accuses others of doing that (explicitly or implicitly), when someone points out technical errors in their reasoning that are beyond the culturally conditioned thresholds of acceptability. Extreme detail and attention to correctness when discussing science or computers or software = Good. Extreme detail and attention to correctness when discussing, say, geopolitics = Bad. We are taught to think this way, pay attention when reading the newspaper or Internet forums, you can see it everywhere.
mvdtnz 2y ago
Sorry what does this have to do with the linked article?
- vladms 2y ago
  The article does not mention a specific location for this "culture" war, and not being specific can lead to inexact ideas (is this restricted to the anglophone sphere?...). Similar to when I see studies like "doing X results in Y" only to read in the actual study that it was made on Australians (or something far away from me with different environment/society/etc.), which means it might not apply at all to my surroundings.
giantg2 2y ago
"It’s so disappointing that our tinfoil hatters aren’t coming up with their own bogus about our own elite." Demographically speaking, most of the people who latch on to conspiracy theories feel lost and want to be a part of a group, even when they don't agree on the same level ads the others. So they are not likely to be generating their own movements. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the movements are information warfare targeted primarily at the US.
Zenzero 2y ago
> we still absolutely ridicule people who’d believe in most of the nonsense so that keeps it down I think that's a major source of the problem here in the US. We have gotten away from outright calling stupid people stupid. The morons spouting the conspiracy theories, the emotionally charged stories, and the anti-intellectual nonsense do not deserve time or consideration. Yet we continue to be sensitive to their screeching about censorship and bias. Let them screech all they want. Their opinions don't matter.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- devjab 2y ago
  We do have the advantage of being a very small country by comparison. Social Media made it worse because the village idiots suddenly had a place to form communities with other village idiots. None of us live far from each other though, you can drive from one end of our country to the other in around 5 hours. So it’s almost impossible to not be mixed up with all sorts of people. I think the “ghettos” we have that are the most isolated are actually the rich people. The rest of us are all mixed in together. We don’t really have a “rural” area as such. In the way you will have in huge countries like America. We obviously the the same urbanisation everyone else has, and the issues which comes with it. Even if you live in the parts of the country which are “left behind” or however it’s described you’re still very likely to have neighbours who work in a large city that just wanted a “country side” home. Which is possible because 95% of our rural non island areas are typically less than an hour in car from one of our major cities.

by devjab 2y ago

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago

Haha they should follow the French music streaming model of taxing foreign stupidity in order to support domestic stupidity.

devjab 2y ago
You joke, but we don’t have to support it. Most of it is already paid for by the Russians. I just think it’s silly how they can get away with recycling the content they created for the US and still be successful with it even though a lot of it makes absolutely no sense in a Danish context.

jfengel 2y ago

The genius of America is finding the lowest common denominator, and commercializing it. The world hates everything we produce -- our food, our movies, our culture -- but they end up consuming it in droves. They complain that it has no taste, and they're right. But they underestimate how much everyone wants stuff that is plentiful, vapid, and cheap. It's no surprise that we similarly export our politics. Conspiracy theories are fast food. They come cheap, are accessible with no effort, and make you feel like you've gotten a lot. We didn't invent any of this but we've got a national genius for optimizing it.

throw8984398 2y ago
> The world hates everything we produce -- our food, our movies, our culture -- but they end up consuming it in droves. They complain that it has no taste, and they're right I think it is even worse for people who live in US. "American" food is different outside of US. For example there are norms in most countries for meat, so the "beef" burger has more meat. We have less limitations on allergens, so we can add peanuts for a taste. Also foreign Coca-Cola has proper sugar, not corn based fructose (Mexicoke). I can never eat in US, even chocolate tastes like vomit! As for cinema, only good stuff is released outside of US. There is no oligopoly in cinema, you get way more diversity in movies. Some countries have censorship that removes some type of scenes. And garbage TV shows, are never released on foreign markets.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  Those are all complaints about bottom-tier American food. A good cheeseburger from a local place is mindblowing. I had one with peanut butter on it last week; we still eat allergens but they have to be labeled. Mexican Coke is way better, true. You're talking about Hershey's chocolate bars which no one considers to be "the good stuff". If you're looking at McDonald's and saying American food sucks, you're missing a whole hell of a lot.
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    Yup, like complaining about Budweiser and Lipton tea. The 70s/80s called and want their argument back.
    - kstrauser 2y ago
      Solid analogy. Yes, we know there are better options and we use them. Also yes, the cheap and “good enough” options will always be popular for good reason. That doesn’t mean they’re the only ones.
- AlbertCory 2y ago
  And therefore, we need censorship. Right? Where we'll be told the "correct" way to think. I'd rather see it all and decide for myself. And end up watching PBS but never, never pledging in their interminable pledge drives. Somehow, they still manage to stay on the air. By the way, in Hell they have PBS pledge drivers on the TV, 24x7, for all eternity. You can't mute the sound.

dboreham 2y ago

America has always tolerated enhanced levels of BS. I remember as a small kid finding US comics at the newsagent that had ads for "x-ray glasses". I thought that's amazing, why don't we have those here? We'll we didn't have them because they don't exist and it was illegal to sell stuff that doesn't exist where I lived.

AStonesThrow 2y ago
Here's my hot take: conspiracy theories and outlandish myths are America's version of Old World superstition and folklore. Study any European culture and how it was Christianized, and how the local culture, folklore, and mythology melded with religion to become a unique tapestry. Look at Ireland for a really pronounced example. Look at the folktales and revered fables that came out of those cultures for a synthesis of what rural folk really believed and talked about over dinner, and by the hearth in the evening times after work was done. But the United States has none of that. The New World came of age during the Enlightenment era of reason and rationality. Now we're in a post-Christian society, one rooted in science and empiricism, but we're still yearning for the supernatural, and it's manifesting in unique ways for us. Americans don't have faeries or unicorns or goblins, we've got chemtrails and little green men. Furthermore, as the U.S. and other New World cultures progress, we're making our own mythology and legends. Look at how much of the American Revolution and Civil War is already steeped in pious fairy tales, such as young Washington's cherry tree, Betsy Ross, Paul Revere, or that utterly fictional, feminist chick who supposedly rode horseback like Revere. Personally, I believe that this fake stuff that people believe is one of two things: either there are kernels of truth and allegory to them, that they're masking a deeper truth that's too dangerous to discuss openly or brazenly reveal; or that they're utter distractions and designed to keep people busy and concerned about utterly irrelevant things. Panem et circenses.
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  There is tons of American folklore, and even more if you include native Americans. Hell "witchcraft" was more of prominent in early America than Europe, and fairies/fae like things are littered in native american histories. Conspiracy theories are a 20th century coping mechanism for an oversized, seemingly-omnipotent federal government.

mistermann 2y ago

All Humans believe the bogus, doing otherwise is not possible. I've yet to meet a Human for whom down the curve of their position is not ~idiocy, and up the curve is not ~pedantry (or something invalidating of a more absolute view on things). As long as the only serious problem is those other people, I think we remain trapped in this local maxima.

CyberDildonics 2y ago
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but maybe when you see someone trying simplify you confuse it for idiocy and when you see someone trying to be specific you confuse it for 'pedantry'.
- mistermann 2y ago
  > the people who are already believing the bogus This encompasses 100% of people so you would have been better of leaving it off as it downplays the severity of the situation we are in. > and when you see someone trying to be specific you confuse it for 'pedantry'. This is what ~smart people typically go for if one includes too much detail or accuracy in the context.
  - CyberDildonics 2y ago
    > the people who are already believing the bogus This encompasses 100% of people so you would have been better of leaving it off as it downplays the severity of the situation we are in. I didn't say that. This is what ~smart people typically go for if one includes too much detail or accuracy in the context. I lost track of what you are trying to say and why, sorry.
    - mistermann 2y ago
      > I didn't say that. That's why I'm complaining. > I lost track of what you are trying to say and why, sorry. Well I interpreted your comment as saying that I would accuse someone of pedantry, but it was me who accuses others of doing that (explicitly or implicitly), when someone points out technical errors in their reasoning that are beyond the culturally conditioned thresholds of acceptability. Extreme detail and attention to correctness when discussing science or computers or software = Good. Extreme detail and attention to correctness when discussing, say, geopolitics = Bad. We are taught to think this way, pay attention when reading the newspaper or Internet forums, you can see it everywhere.

mvdtnz 2y ago

Sorry what does this have to do with the linked article?

vladms 2y ago
The article does not mention a specific location for this "culture" war, and not being specific can lead to inexact ideas (is this restricted to the anglophone sphere?...). Similar to when I see studies like "doing X results in Y" only to read in the actual study that it was made on Australians (or something far away from me with different environment/society/etc.), which means it might not apply at all to my surroundings.

giantg2 2y ago

"It’s so disappointing that our tinfoil hatters aren’t coming up with their own bogus about our own elite." Demographically speaking, most of the people who latch on to conspiracy theories feel lost and want to be a part of a group, even when they don't agree on the same level ads the others. So they are not likely to be generating their own movements. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the movements are information warfare targeted primarily at the US.

Zenzero 2y ago

> we still absolutely ridicule people who’d believe in most of the nonsense so that keeps it down I think that's a major source of the problem here in the US. We have gotten away from outright calling stupid people stupid. The morons spouting the conspiracy theories, the emotionally charged stories, and the anti-intellectual nonsense do not deserve time or consideration. Yet we continue to be sensitive to their screeching about censorship and bias. Let them screech all they want. Their opinions don't matter.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
devjab 2y ago
We do have the advantage of being a very small country by comparison. Social Media made it worse because the village idiots suddenly had a place to form communities with other village idiots. None of us live far from each other though, you can drive from one end of our country to the other in around 5 hours. So it’s almost impossible to not be mixed up with all sorts of people. I think the “ghettos” we have that are the most isolated are actually the rich people. The rest of us are all mixed in together. We don’t really have a “rural” area as such. In the way you will have in huge countries like America. We obviously the the same urbanisation everyone else has, and the issues which comes with it. Even if you live in the parts of the country which are “left behind” or however it’s described you’re still very likely to have neighbours who work in a large city that just wanted a “country side” home. Which is possible because 95% of our rural non island areas are typically less than an hour in car from one of our major cities.