12 ms·

I think a lot of people will quit on the spot when having high compensation but no say and being just a ticket closer and being scoffed at by not making quota.

• eru 2y ago
  Yes, in practice more often than not, the people who respect you enough to pay you well often also respect you enough to treat you well (and the opposite). It's less of a trade-off than it's often portrayed as.
  • WJW 2y ago
    There's probably a causal relation too: both the compensation AND the desire to take ideas seriously come from the same source, which can generally be summarized as "respect for the way specific expertise can help along a shared cause".
  • hobs 2y ago
    The fact that we are arguing about the basic rules of money still is amusing. Any corporate drone can tell you that allocating budget is the main way a corporation identifies what is important. If it wasn't, why is the CEO getting paid so much? Why are the biggest problems and the dearest things allocated the most budget? How many backflips do we perform for said things? Any other interpretation is ignoring the most basic power dynamics at play.
  • jjav 2y ago
    > Yes, in practice more often than not, the people who respect you enough to pay you well often also respect you enough to treat you well (and the opposite). In practice, these are not the same people. The people who have a direct impact on empowering and respecting you are your manager and their manager. These people also have (having been one) surprisingly little say in how much you get paid. HR rules that land. We can present arguments and beg and plead, but ultimately don't really have any decision making power on the paycheck side.
    • eru 2y ago
      Company culture influences both pay and treatment. Yes, there can be pockets of good management in otherwise bad companies, and vice versa, but generally the two are largely aligned.
      • jjav 2y ago
        While just anecdotal, in my 20+ years in the industry I've never seen these formally aligned. i.e. when I've been in roles where both pay and respect are good, the latter is always because my direct management chain supported it. The same company has always had unlucky teams where respect was missing even though payscales were the same (since the latter is company-wide).
        • eru 2y ago
          Sorry, that sounds pretty unlucky. Are you taking any steps to spot these kinds of companies before you agree to work for them? (Or are you happy to work in a well-run pocked of an otherwise not so great company?)
          • jjav 2y ago
            Maybe I'm not expressing this well. There's nothing un/lucky about, it is the inevitable result of human nature. Your experience in any team in any company will be directly correlated to how emphatic and respectful your immediate management chain is as people. It is impossible to mandate this level of culture from a centralized location like HR. That where the saying comes from: "People leave managers not companies".
• goalieca 2y ago
  You don’t get to be high performing if you’re just closing tickets. High performers add significant value and provide real impact.
  • loloquwowndueo 2y ago
    If tickets are filed by customers and closing them means I solved the issue for the customer thereby making them happy, being a better ticket closer totally adds significant value. It’s the difference between “my ticket was solved satisfactorily in 10 minutes, excellent support” and “it’s been weeks without a reply because there are 500 tickets in the queue and nobody gives a crap”.
• gonzo41 2y ago
  You know those people you meet who say 'I used to code...' They traded IC software work for being able to have a say about the business. They never look happy.
  • disgruntledphd2 2y ago
    Yeah, because the happy ones don't mention that they used to code ;)
  • inhumantsar 2y ago
    I can see myself in this comment and I don't like it. Pushing teams and product managers to take a bit of time up-front to consider architectural decisions, ideal vs minimal feature sets, security concerns, etc. got me promoted into a manager of managers role. What I didn't realise was that it wouldn't actually mean having more weight to throw around. Instead those sideline efforts became my entire job and that job was exhausting. I still believe it's possible for startup product teams to move fast without sacrificing quality and sustainability, but I'm increasingly convinced that the only way to achieve that balance is to build it in from the start.
  • smugma 2y ago
    Many of my friends used to code, and either moved up the engineering ladder chain or moved to other more business-y roles. Only one went back to coding. Most of us are quite happy with our work (not sure how we look).
  • ozim 2y ago
    There are also the ones who were never good at it and use it as badge of honor like stolen valor. Because no one has means to validate what actually they did. I have seen loads of ppl who cannot make heads or tails in code but went management route.