4 ms·

I love how this is another of those ‘laws with no penalty for breaking them’ which Japan seems to be so fond of.

by Aeolun 2y ago

ninjin 2y ago
Well, plenty of cases in terms of prefectural laws have a surprising amount of compliance despite the lack of a penalty. Most recently, mandating bicycle helmets. Yes, far from everyone wear them, but it has not been a full year yet. However it slowly pushes people towards compliance without bogging down law enforcement. Remember that Japan had some of the highest rate of mask compliance during COVID-19 without there being any penalties other than harsh stares. Japanese people are still human with all the ups and down, but some aspects of society truly are different here.
- traceroute66 2y ago
  > that Japan had some of the highest rate of mask compliance during COVID-19 As a regular visitor to Japan for $work for many years, my impression is the reason for mask compliance during COVID is because wearing masks during cold/flu season BEFORE COVID was normal. My understanding is that part of it is to do with the fact that Japan had "been there, done that, got the postcard" when they dealt with SARS. So COVID was "just another" SARS and the Japanese knew what they had to do. Japan's handling of COVID was, from a western perspective, exemplary. Japan is a country with 2x the population of the UK. Japan is a country that lives and works in MUCH higher density than the UK. And yet it only had something like 1/10th of the COVID cases/deaths the UK did. Given the immense population density, COVID should have spread like wildfire in Japan, but it did not. The other part is the Japanese cultural thing where, by and large, you understand you are part of a larger picture and coughing/spluttering/sneezing all over your fellow countrymen is very much not cool. So wearing a mask is simply understood to be the right thing to do. On this subject, see also the famous images of Japanese fans clearing up rubbish from football stadiums during world cups ... I didn't see many drunken western fans doing that. To be clear, I am not insinuating Japan is perfect, far from it. But there is a lot the West could and should learn from Japan ... if it ever wanted to. :)
  - aakresearch 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
      This does read like a conspiracy theory to me.
      - aakresearch 2y ago
        Case in point.
    - traceroute66 2y ago
      What the hell is that load of rambling, incoherent, waffle @aakresearch ? If you are trying to push the anti-mask agenda, then that boat has long sailed. Scientific evidence from multiple reputable worldwide sources is very much against you. If you are trying to push some anti-Japanese agenda, might I suggest, to put it politely, that sort of thing is not appropriate here or anywhere else.
      - aakresearch 2y ago
        This is not even wrong :-\ I'm really puzzled how my words can be seen as "pushing" any "agenda". My only intent was to point out that "just-so story" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story) is a lame way to explain complex events. People, of course, are happy to settle on it because of comfort it provides.
skhr0680 2y ago
Actually, it has teeth. If a worker can prove their boss allowed or encouraged customer harrassment*, they can sue their company for power harassment**, and expect a decent cash payout and protection from retaliatory acts. * I’m 40 and most people my age have a story of when they were forced by a manager to beg a customer or client for forgiveness for a “mistake” that often existed only in the customer’s head. ** IANAL but pressuring your subordinate to do something illegal sounds like a textbook case of power harassment
xyst 2y ago
Japan has a culture of shaming which mostly works. Something like this wouldn’t work in USA because of our lack of respect for authority. Thus USA has developed a culture around fear instead. Fear of jail time. Fear of fines. Fear of (unfortunately) death (ie, pretextual traffic stops). Have read about some countries (Netherlands?) where they don’t even have turnstiles to check your ticket. You just board the train. It’s expected that you bought the ticket, why waste time checking it? Additionally, I suppose the idea here is that the cost of ticket checkers far outweighs the benefits.
- kelipso 2y ago
  Pretty sure it's not so much trust but because there's a chance the train conductor would check tickets while you are in the train.
- nothercastle 2y ago
  And that probably worked fine while they were a homogeneous group of people but after migration of so many people into the country I don’t think trust and shame culture works with many different ethnic groups
- riversflow 2y ago
  Amtrak doesn’t have turnstiles to check your tickets either. The conductor will ask to see your ticket while you are riding though. Pretty sure thats normal for trains.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  The Netherlands very definitely has turnstiles to check your ticket. No getting on the train without getting through the door. It’s true that there’s some smaller stations that just have a few ‘scan your card’ poles and no entry/exit block. Japan is more or less the same, except that the turnstiles won’t physically block you from entering, and are open by default.

I love how this is another of those ‘laws with no penalty for breaking them’ which Japan seems to be so fond of.

by Aeolun 2y ago

I love how this is another of those ‘laws with no penalty for breaking them’ which Japan seems to be so fond of.

Well, plenty of cases in terms of prefectural laws have a surprising amount of compliance despite the lack of a penalty. Most recently, mandating bicycle helmets. Yes, far from everyone wear them, but it has not been a full year yet. However it slowly pushes people towards compliance without bogging down law enforcement. Remember that Japan had some of the highest rate of mask compliance during COVID-19 without there being any penalties other than harsh stares. Japanese people are still human with all the ups and down, but some aspects of society truly are different here.

traceroute66 2y ago
> that Japan had some of the highest rate of mask compliance during COVID-19 As a regular visitor to Japan for $work for many years, my impression is the reason for mask compliance during COVID is because wearing masks during cold/flu season BEFORE COVID was normal. My understanding is that part of it is to do with the fact that Japan had "been there, done that, got the postcard" when they dealt with SARS. So COVID was "just another" SARS and the Japanese knew what they had to do. Japan's handling of COVID was, from a western perspective, exemplary. Japan is a country with 2x the population of the UK. Japan is a country that lives and works in MUCH higher density than the UK. And yet it only had something like 1/10th of the COVID cases/deaths the UK did. Given the immense population density, COVID should have spread like wildfire in Japan, but it did not. The other part is the Japanese cultural thing where, by and large, you understand you are part of a larger picture and coughing/spluttering/sneezing all over your fellow countrymen is very much not cool. So wearing a mask is simply understood to be the right thing to do. On this subject, see also the famous images of Japanese fans clearing up rubbish from football stadiums during world cups ... I didn't see many drunken western fans doing that. To be clear, I am not insinuating Japan is perfect, far from it. But there is a lot the West could and should learn from Japan ... if it ever wanted to. :)
- aakresearch 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
    This does read like a conspiracy theory to me.
    - aakresearch 2y ago
      Case in point.
  - traceroute66 2y ago
    What the hell is that load of rambling, incoherent, waffle @aakresearch ? If you are trying to push the anti-mask agenda, then that boat has long sailed. Scientific evidence from multiple reputable worldwide sources is very much against you. If you are trying to push some anti-Japanese agenda, might I suggest, to put it politely, that sort of thing is not appropriate here or anywhere else.
    - aakresearch 2y ago
      This is not even wrong :-\ I'm really puzzled how my words can be seen as "pushing" any "agenda". My only intent was to point out that "just-so story" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story) is a lame way to explain complex events. People, of course, are happy to settle on it because of comfort it provides.

skhr0680 2y ago

Actually, it has teeth. If a worker can prove their boss allowed or encouraged customer harrassment*, they can sue their company for power harassment**, and expect a decent cash payout and protection from retaliatory acts. * I’m 40 and most people my age have a story of when they were forced by a manager to beg a customer or client for forgiveness for a “mistake” that often existed only in the customer’s head. ** IANAL but pressuring your subordinate to do something illegal sounds like a textbook case of power harassment

xyst 2y ago

Japan has a culture of shaming which mostly works. Something like this wouldn’t work in USA because of our lack of respect for authority. Thus USA has developed a culture around fear instead. Fear of jail time. Fear of fines. Fear of (unfortunately) death (ie, pretextual traffic stops). Have read about some countries (Netherlands?) where they don’t even have turnstiles to check your ticket. You just board the train. It’s expected that you bought the ticket, why waste time checking it? Additionally, I suppose the idea here is that the cost of ticket checkers far outweighs the benefits.

kelipso 2y ago
Pretty sure it's not so much trust but because there's a chance the train conductor would check tickets while you are in the train.
nothercastle 2y ago
And that probably worked fine while they were a homogeneous group of people but after migration of so many people into the country I don’t think trust and shame culture works with many different ethnic groups
riversflow 2y ago
Amtrak doesn’t have turnstiles to check your tickets either. The conductor will ask to see your ticket while you are riding though. Pretty sure thats normal for trains.
Aeolun 2y ago
The Netherlands very definitely has turnstiles to check your ticket. No getting on the train without getting through the door. It’s true that there’s some smaller stations that just have a few ‘scan your card’ poles and no entry/exit block. Japan is more or less the same, except that the turnstiles won’t physically block you from entering, and are open by default.