5 ms·
For what it's worth, I loathe this sort of thing (damning by vague questioning): "But, if a composite is full of a measure that’s biased, how accurate is it goi
by Zanni 2y ago
For what it's worth, I loathe this sort of thing (damning by vague questioning): "But, if a composite is full of a measure that’s biased, how accurate is it going to be?"
Well, I don't know, and you haven't told me. Is it a consistent high bias? Low? Variable? How biased? How accurate?
What you're trying to say, without accepting responsibility for actually saying it, is "It's an inaccurate composite because it's based on biased measurements." But you don't know that, or you'd say it without weasel words.
- drilbo 2y agoFrom the study linked [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-024-02066-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-024-02066-5] (with acronym meanings added inline for readability): "The lowest pulse arrival time standard deviation (PAT σ) at 2.0 times the standard deviation corresponded to 88.4% of the Region of Practical Equivalence (ROPE) for SDNN (Standard Deviation of Normal-to-Normal intervals), and 21.4% for RMSSD (Root Mean Square of Successive Differences). As the standard deviation of PAT increases, the equivalence between photoplethysmography-derived "heart rate variability" (PRV) and electrocardiography-derived heart rate variability (HRV) decreases for both SDNN and RMSSD. The width of the highest density interval (HDI), which encompasses 95% of the posterior distribution, increases with increasing PAT σ. This increase occurs at a higher rate for RMSSD than for SDNN." So for "how accurate?", grossly and irresponsibly oversimplifying, the Apple method is roughly 90% accurate, and devices using the inferior method are roughly 20% accurate. I would be really interested to know of any devices not locked down to Apple ecosystem that also use this approach, if anyone has any insight.
- stavros 2y agoAnd your comment was much more informative than the article.
- refulgentis 2y agoThat's obviously untrue
- Etheryte 2y agoThis is such a ridiculously wide divide that I'm surprised Apple hasn't used this, or something similar to this, as a marketing tactic. Imagine being able to say your medical insights are 70 percentage points more accurate than your competitors. I do understand this is apples to oranges, since these are often devices in a completely different price range, but still. I was surprised to hear this and I have been loosely following the medical wearables space for awhile.
- willis936 2y agoI would imagine would be quite happy saying as little as possible about their sensors in their watches. It seems like their largest surface area for licensing litigation. Touting performance today is fuel in court tomorrow. https://time.com/6692718/apple-watch-masimo-alivecor-patent-antitrust-legal-explainer/ https://time.com/6692718/apple-watch-masimo-alivecor-patent-...
- drilbo 2y agoI believe there are non-Apple devices that use this approach as well, but they're certainly failing in making that information easy to find. That being said, being the only watch with FDA blessing is a pretty effective point to market https://www.apple.com/healthcare/apple-watch/ https://www.apple.com/healthcare/apple-watch/
- Kbelicius 2y agoThere are a number of watches that were given a blessing, as you put it, by the FDA. Pixel, Samsung, Garmin, Withings...
- cabidaher 2y agoWhere can one find a list of those watches/manufacturers?
- drilbo 2y agoApologizes, you're correct. I vaguely remember reading they were "first" to get FDA approval for some feature, but if that were ever true, it is sorely outdated information. I fell for the hype, it seems. Unfortunate that I can't delete or edit the post at this point.
- naasking 2y agoThe Quantified Scientist has tested a while buttload of smart watches against a chest strap heart rate monitor: https://youtube.com/@thequantifiedscientist?si=4u-u1VI7eMrXDq4Z https://youtube.com/@thequantifiedscientist?si=4u-u1VI7eMrXD... Apple Watches are at the top, but there are many other watches that are almost as good.
- brnt 2y agoIs there a searchable text version of this resource?
- naasking 2y agoNot sure, but every video shows a huge graph with all of the watches on it, ranked by accuracy. If you just view the latest video you can get an idea of the best watches, or where a watch you might be looking at falls, then you can search for the specific video where he tests it to see specifics.
- ragazzina 2y agoIn the video description click on "Show transcript".
- brnt 2y agoBut it seems each video is about a different model; having to search N transcripts still isn't optimal.
- juthen 2y agoHe's not written books on the subject. You can setup a search yourself. There's also a blog with easier access than transcripts. https://www.robterhorst.com/post/apple-watch-ultra-2-vs-series-9-scientific-review https://www.robterhorst.com/post/apple-watch-ultra-2-vs-seri...