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> News flash - vegans and vegetarians do not need "meat substitutes", as we do not crave meat. This news flash is news to me. Vegetarian diet (and not much ov
by neilv 2y ago
> News flash - vegans and vegetarians do not need "meat substitutes", as we do not crave meat.
This news flash is news to me. Vegetarian diet (and not much ovo nor lacto) for 25+ years.
I eat fake meat almost every day.
And in the summer, when neighbors cook some unidentified real meat on their grill, and it wafts over, I feel a twinge of carnivore frenzy, ready to fight them for their kill, with my claws and teeth.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 2y agoI tried going vegan once. I found my craving for a burger increased the longer I went without. That told me I was suffering a nutritional deficiency. I don't observe the same increase in cravings over time for generic tasty food like chocolate cake. (I suspect it was the heme iron in the burger btw)
- IWeldMelons 2y agoYou should not switch straight to vegan, you should've started with vegetarian.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 2y agoWhy would that make a difference?
- WalterSear 2y agoI think they are primarily suggesting that you take it slow. I'd wager a lot that your craving was due to the psychology of the process you performed, not some actual physiological withdrawal. If you took your time and found other things that were good to eat, rather than 'quitting' your habitual foods, I don't imagine you would have any trouble at all.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 2y agoI was eating vegan burgers every so often. That should've covered the psychology aspect, but it didn't. My energy level was steadily declining, as you might expect for an iron deficiency. When I gave in and started eating burgers, they were profoundly tasty, and my energy levels recovered. I've had dietary shifts in the past (from one omnivore diet to another) and nothing like this happened. I'm on board with the ethical aspect of veganism. I'm annoyed by what I perceive as the ideological aspect, which pretends a vegan diet can easily be perfectly nutritious. [I'm complaining about this because I'm hoping vegans will take a hard look in the mirror, and start taking nutrition seriously, so I won't suffer from an iron deficiency (or whatever it was!) if I try again in the future.]
- IWeldMelons 2y agoMore familiar taste, of animal fat and protein.
- collingreen 2y agoI understand this position but I don't love the logic - cravings for things like addictive drugs also increase for a while as you withdraw. Eat whatever you like but it's probably good to pause and really consider what you're wanting and why. Meat is deeply satisfying and has lots of things we need in it. If you're fine with the process of how the meat makes it to your plate then just own that and enjoy it.
- jnordwick 2y ago> cravings for things like addictive drugs also increase for a while as you withdraw. This is in party because once you become a heavy user, your body stops producing various chemicals or becomes accustomed to larger amounts to meet its baseline (such as dopamine and other neurotransmitters). When you stop your body slowly start producing those again and has to become accustomed to the new baseline. That craving is exactly your body telling you that you are missing something. Is there anything that shows vegetarian and vegan dieters increase the production of chemicals associated with what they are refraining from? Most drug addictions deals with chemicals the body can make itself, but it the substances lacking in a vegan diet would seem to be things we cannot produce. There are large populations that have eaten that way their entire life. I wonder how their body chemistry is different than those that started veganism later in life. They don't have to adjust. If they started eating meat, what changed in iron or protein synthesis do they go through?
- IWeldMelons 2y agoI think you are torturing yourself and need to stop. I have no craving for meat, and occasionally, when I am forced to eat by cooks mistake or for social reasons (funerals etc.) I feel uncomformatable as if I've eaten soap.
- neilv 2y agoI'm not a quitter. :) But seriously, after 25+ years, though some of the taste of meat dishes would be good, the idea of eating meat is personally unappealing. Plus, I don't know that my system would even be able to process it. So, I'd expect to be grossed out, have GI plumbing and nutrition problems, and maybe frequent food poisoning. I'm neutral on whether other people should go vegetarian, but personally I feel stuck with it.
- collingreen 2y agoI think you shouldn't tell people how they should eat. Share your own experience and anecdotes - that's great! Once it reaches "you need to do X" it stops being effective at information transfer and becomes overbearing.
- IWeldMelons 2y agoI think you should not tell people what tell to other people, it is passive-aggresive and "overbearing".
- collingreen 2y agolol fair enough! I'll give you overbearing but not passive aggressive on this one.
- olyjohn 2y agoI think that everybody likes and reacts differently to different foods.
- createaccount99 2y agoAgree, I feel relieved I don't have to eat meat and that people acknowledge I won't. The mouth feel of tendons etc., that always comes with meat, disgusts me.