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The thing is: Android is fundamentally Linux. Why should we have to run Linux in a VM (on underpowered hardware). Why not just open up Android, and bring it clo

The thing is: Android is fundamentally Linux. Why should we have to run Linux in a VM (on underpowered hardware). Why not just open up Android, and bring it closer to its roots? They could start by getting rid of the need to root phones, to have full access to them: entering developer mode could give you access to something like sudo.

mdp2021 2y ago
> Why not just open up Android ... root Security. Many people want to run critical applications on their handhelds, and the policy is to err on the side of safety. (In "better safe than sorry", that is a different kind of sorry - I spoke only yesterday with a user that got locked out of the device completely because of a small accident.)
- summm 2y ago
  More like: Many people want to run their applications on other people's phones, without those other people having any say about what that applications do or don't. It is security, but security of the app publishers against the user.
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    I guess you mean: a non rooted Android, conversely, inhibits the removal of bloatware and spyware. Yes, a proper solution covering all needs is needed. (Personally, I do not use said «critical applications» because I do not trust container, application and providers. So...)
  - izacus 2y ago
    This - enterprise app creators (more concretely, their security auditors) outright demand that the users are locked out of their devices and that the device confirms and enforces that before their app is installed. The amount of these apps and these processes is increasing and has now made it into governmental rules as well (e.g. new digital IDs).
    - ruthmarx 2y ago
      > The amount of these apps and these processes is increasing and has now made it into governmental rules as well (e.g. new digital IDs). All the more reason to find ways to break those restrictions. Surely running a digital ID app on something like e/os is possible? If not there should be a lawsuit.
pjmlp 2y ago
The only thing Linux on Android is the Linux kernel.
realusername 2y ago
They'll never go that route because Google wants full control on your device. But yeah fundamentally, there's no technical reason why Android couldn't be a normal Linux distribution.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Lots of features missing from upstream.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    Which ones? My GNU/Linux phone works fine.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      Project Treble, Rust in the kernel, for example.
  - realusername 2y ago
    Sure but it's Google, it's not like they don't have enough engineers to upstream what they need.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      Why bother, they already use Rust, compile with clang, and have a stable driver ABI without drama.
      - realusername 2y ago
        We are back to square one and what I said originally yes, they don't want to do it because they want full control on your device. There's no technical reason why Android can't just be another Linux distribution. There's no technical reason why you could not boot into an OS from a usb key on your phone like a normal computer. There's no technical reason why the play services have more rights than the actual owner of the phone. It's all about who controls your device. Android follows a "look, don't touch" model and will continue to be this way as long as possible on Google's side.
amelius 2y ago
> Android is fundamentally Linux. I thought that Android is mostly Java (that happens to run on a Linux kernel but might be anything as far as the specs are concerned).
- izacus 2y ago
  It's really a distro isn't it? Linux kernel packaged with a set of userspace software (mostly in java) and bunch of non-java supporting bits making it work.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    A custom Linux kernel, compiled with clang, where Rust is used without drama, and most drivers live on their own process talking with the Linux kernel via Binder IPC, microkernel style. Which means most Android drivers are actually written in a mix of C++, Java and Rust, with a standard ABI, HAL.
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    Pretty far from a linux distro honestly, especially since distro tends to imply it can run most linux software.

mdp2021 2y ago

> Why not just open up Android ... root Security. Many people want to run critical applications on their handhelds, and the policy is to err on the side of safety. (In "better safe than sorry", that is a different kind of sorry - I spoke only yesterday with a user that got locked out of the device completely because of a small accident.)

summm 2y ago
More like: Many people want to run their applications on other people's phones, without those other people having any say about what that applications do or don't. It is security, but security of the app publishers against the user.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  I guess you mean: a non rooted Android, conversely, inhibits the removal of bloatware and spyware. Yes, a proper solution covering all needs is needed. (Personally, I do not use said «critical applications» because I do not trust container, application and providers. So...)
- izacus 2y ago
  This - enterprise app creators (more concretely, their security auditors) outright demand that the users are locked out of their devices and that the device confirms and enforces that before their app is installed. The amount of these apps and these processes is increasing and has now made it into governmental rules as well (e.g. new digital IDs).
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    > The amount of these apps and these processes is increasing and has now made it into governmental rules as well (e.g. new digital IDs). All the more reason to find ways to break those restrictions. Surely running a digital ID app on something like e/os is possible? If not there should be a lawsuit.

pjmlp 2y ago

The only thing Linux on Android is the Linux kernel.

realusername 2y ago

They'll never go that route because Google wants full control on your device. But yeah fundamentally, there's no technical reason why Android couldn't be a normal Linux distribution.

pjmlp 2y ago
Lots of features missing from upstream.
- fsflover 2y ago
  Which ones? My GNU/Linux phone works fine.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Project Treble, Rust in the kernel, for example.
- realusername 2y ago
  Sure but it's Google, it's not like they don't have enough engineers to upstream what they need.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Why bother, they already use Rust, compile with clang, and have a stable driver ABI without drama.
    - realusername 2y ago
      We are back to square one and what I said originally yes, they don't want to do it because they want full control on your device. There's no technical reason why Android can't just be another Linux distribution. There's no technical reason why you could not boot into an OS from a usb key on your phone like a normal computer. There's no technical reason why the play services have more rights than the actual owner of the phone. It's all about who controls your device. Android follows a "look, don't touch" model and will continue to be this way as long as possible on Google's side.

amelius 2y ago

> Android is fundamentally Linux. I thought that Android is mostly Java (that happens to run on a Linux kernel but might be anything as far as the specs are concerned).

izacus 2y ago
It's really a distro isn't it? Linux kernel packaged with a set of userspace software (mostly in java) and bunch of non-java supporting bits making it work.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  A custom Linux kernel, compiled with clang, where Rust is used without drama, and most drivers live on their own process talking with the Linux kernel via Binder IPC, microkernel style. Which means most Android drivers are actually written in a mix of C++, Java and Rust, with a standard ABI, HAL.
- ruthmarx 2y ago
  Pretty far from a linux distro honestly, especially since distro tends to imply it can run most linux software.