4 ms·

That depends on how exactly a right to repair law is going to regulate things. Will a company have to provide parts for older models forever? Because in the art

by kleiba 2y ago

That depends on how exactly a right to repair law is going to regulate things. Will a company have to provide parts for older models forever? Because in the article it says that he was going to fix it himself but couldn't find the part that connects the battery to his controller watch.

jjk166 2y ago
They shouldn't be making such unnecessary proprietary components. For cases where there really is no way around using custom hardware, at end of life the specifications should be made public so that a third party can manufacture them. In this specific case, the real issue is just the incredibly short service lifetime. While different medical devices are going to have different lifetimes, manufacturers need to continue to provide support for at least 36 months after reporting that they plan to discontinue support, which is 60% of the lifetime of this product. Typically medical devices are supported for much longer.
- tedunangst 2y ago
  Isn't five years longer than 36 months?
  - jjk166 2y ago
    36 months is 60% of five years.
- bastawhiz 2y ago
  To play devil's advocate: > They shouldn't be making such unnecessary proprietary components. Perhaps not, but that's not right to repair. Pretty much everything in any modern smartphone is completely proprietary. And as the article said, the battery wasn't proprietary. The missing part was the battery connector. That doesn't even suggest to me that it's wildly proprietary, just that it can't be found anymore. Lots of components that are easily sourced now would be challenging for an ordinary person to source in a decade. > at end of life the specifications should be made public so that a third party can manufacture them. This also isn't right to repair. In fact, it probably doesn't help much at all: a sufficiently specialized part on a specialized medical device is going to be so niche that the cost of an aftermarket part will be huge. There's probably what, twenty of these things in the wild? A hundred? How many aftermarket manufacturers will even pick up the phone for a one-off custom part, spec or no? > manufacturers need to continue to provide support for at least 36 months after reporting that they plan to discontinue support, which is 60% of the lifetime of this product The device was supported for the regulatory limit of five years, and the owner has been using it for ten. Assuming they did give three years of support after discontinuing the product, it's now two years beyond that. For a product only approved to be sold for five years by a regulator, I think the fact that the only piece that couldn't be serviced after double that time is a battery connector is pretty impressive (all things considered). Customer service aside, I'm not sure how much more you could possibly ask from this company.
  - justinclift 2y ago
    > How many aftermarket manufacturers will even pick up the phone for a one-off custom part, spec or no? That would depend entirely upon the part. With (detailed) specs being available, quite a lot of skilled repair techs would be able to bodge something competent together (!) to meet those specs. Re-manufacturing completely 100% good parts could be a thing sure, for sufficient volumes. But real world situations for low volumes tend to be "lets get it working well enough using the tools we have available". Creativity is required. ;) The results for those situations are improved dramatically if there's detailed, good quality docs easily accessible to the people working on it.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    > How many aftermarket manufacturers will even pick up the phone for a one-off custom part, spec or no? If you offered 1% of the entire device's replacement price, for a part that the average tinkerer could build, I think you'd find a stampede of competent offers. I'm sure much lower amounts would work too.
    - bastawhiz 2y ago
      If you're paying $1000 for every part on a $100,000 exoskeleton, there might be folks lining up, but that's terrible for the consumer.
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        The point is there's a price where you could get the parts made, and that price is much much lower than a new model. A thousand dollars every few years is something that could go in a budget. Don't focus too much on the exact number I used, I went on the high end just to make a point, also it's supposed to be a per-major-fix price not a per-part price.
        bastawhiz 2y ago
        A thousand dollars for a part worth ones of dollars will simply never be the better alternative, sorry
cptaj 2y ago
Not sure about the US but in some countries this is regulated for cars. Companies are required to provide parts for a certain amount of years after discontinuation of the product. It seems abundantly reasonable that a similar requirement be imposed for prosthesis. And it would also be very reasonable for the required period to be longer than that of cars. So yeah, not forever, but definitely not a a short period either.
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  > Not sure about the US I think this was something that used to be regulated but is not now. There's plenty of financial justification for supporting cars 10 or more years by making parts, since most last longer than that. For niche products that are practically one-offs, I can see where it might need to be regulated because the economics won't encourage it.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  I had to buy a mirror for my 23 year old car on eBay. There ought to be a law /s
  - rascul 2y ago
    The local AutoZone stocks mirrors for my 22 year old Oldsmobile. I don't know if there's a law.

by kleiba 2y ago

jjk166 2y ago

They shouldn't be making such unnecessary proprietary components. For cases where there really is no way around using custom hardware, at end of life the specifications should be made public so that a third party can manufacture them. In this specific case, the real issue is just the incredibly short service lifetime. While different medical devices are going to have different lifetimes, manufacturers need to continue to provide support for at least 36 months after reporting that they plan to discontinue support, which is 60% of the lifetime of this product. Typically medical devices are supported for much longer.

tedunangst 2y ago
Isn't five years longer than 36 months?
- jjk166 2y ago
  36 months is 60% of five years.
bastawhiz 2y ago
To play devil's advocate: > They shouldn't be making such unnecessary proprietary components. Perhaps not, but that's not right to repair. Pretty much everything in any modern smartphone is completely proprietary. And as the article said, the battery wasn't proprietary. The missing part was the battery connector. That doesn't even suggest to me that it's wildly proprietary, just that it can't be found anymore. Lots of components that are easily sourced now would be challenging for an ordinary person to source in a decade. > at end of life the specifications should be made public so that a third party can manufacture them. This also isn't right to repair. In fact, it probably doesn't help much at all: a sufficiently specialized part on a specialized medical device is going to be so niche that the cost of an aftermarket part will be huge. There's probably what, twenty of these things in the wild? A hundred? How many aftermarket manufacturers will even pick up the phone for a one-off custom part, spec or no? > manufacturers need to continue to provide support for at least 36 months after reporting that they plan to discontinue support, which is 60% of the lifetime of this product The device was supported for the regulatory limit of five years, and the owner has been using it for ten. Assuming they did give three years of support after discontinuing the product, it's now two years beyond that. For a product only approved to be sold for five years by a regulator, I think the fact that the only piece that couldn't be serviced after double that time is a battery connector is pretty impressive (all things considered). Customer service aside, I'm not sure how much more you could possibly ask from this company.
- justinclift 2y ago
  > How many aftermarket manufacturers will even pick up the phone for a one-off custom part, spec or no? That would depend entirely upon the part. With (detailed) specs being available, quite a lot of skilled repair techs would be able to bodge something competent together (!) to meet those specs. Re-manufacturing completely 100% good parts could be a thing sure, for sufficient volumes. But real world situations for low volumes tend to be "lets get it working well enough using the tools we have available". Creativity is required. ;) The results for those situations are improved dramatically if there's detailed, good quality docs easily accessible to the people working on it.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  > How many aftermarket manufacturers will even pick up the phone for a one-off custom part, spec or no? If you offered 1% of the entire device's replacement price, for a part that the average tinkerer could build, I think you'd find a stampede of competent offers. I'm sure much lower amounts would work too.
  - bastawhiz 2y ago
    If you're paying $1000 for every part on a $100,000 exoskeleton, there might be folks lining up, but that's terrible for the consumer.
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      The point is there's a price where you could get the parts made, and that price is much much lower than a new model. A thousand dollars every few years is something that could go in a budget. Don't focus too much on the exact number I used, I went on the high end just to make a point, also it's supposed to be a per-major-fix price not a per-part price.
      - bastawhiz 2y ago
        A thousand dollars for a part worth ones of dollars will simply never be the better alternative, sorry

cptaj 2y ago

Not sure about the US but in some countries this is regulated for cars. Companies are required to provide parts for a certain amount of years after discontinuation of the product. It seems abundantly reasonable that a similar requirement be imposed for prosthesis. And it would also be very reasonable for the required period to be longer than that of cars. So yeah, not forever, but definitely not a a short period either.

rootusrootus 2y ago
> Not sure about the US I think this was something that used to be regulated but is not now. There's plenty of financial justification for supporting cars 10 or more years by making parts, since most last longer than that. For niche products that are practically one-offs, I can see where it might need to be regulated because the economics won't encourage it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
readthenotes1 2y ago
I had to buy a mirror for my 23 year old car on eBay. There ought to be a law /s
- rascul 2y ago
  The local AutoZone stocks mirrors for my 22 year old Oldsmobile. I don't know if there's a law.